Connecting external dac to ultra

[Burnside]

Audio Electronics: Is Digital Jitter Really a Problem?

Since the dawn of the digital era decades ago, the timing error known as "jitter" in A/D/A converters has been accused of harming audio fidelity. Some people claim that jitter adds audible distortion and noise, affects bass fullness, and even harms stereo imaging width and depth. This article...

audioxpress.com

Conclusion
Assuming you watched the video, I think the most important revelation is that even 10 times more jitter than is usual for inexpensive audio devices is innocuous and doesn’t harm the music. The usual scapegoats “fullness and width” are clearly not affected by the addition of jitter noise. Even with the jitter at 10µs, which is huge and limits the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) to only 35dB, you can appreciate the power of the masking effect.

From the link: “Overall, it should be clear from these tests that employing an external master clock cannot and will not improve the sound quality of a digital audio system.”. Has anyone told CheapaudioMan?

 

[Burnside]

Let me clarify things, some people are not so optimistic, they do believe that our hearing is extremely sensitive to changes in the time domain and they can hear jitter effects.

Ah, our old friend Hans

 

[onlyoneme]

Ah, our old friend Hans

Nah, I don't care about him

 

[Grze Gorz]

Let audiophiles hear what others cannot hear

 

[Valentino]

Why not? Because someone on ASR said that it's a solved thing?

No need to go to ASR. Hearing artifacts at -125 dB is not possible.

 

[Saponetto]

I use Toslink to feed external dacs just to achieve two output lines (RCA + BAL) to drive whatever I could want.
Pretty useful.

 

[onlyoneme]

No need to go to ASR. Hearing artifacts at -125 dB is not possible.

So it's not about such ones.

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Maybe? I am just curious about why so many people prefer adding an external DAC to the WiiM Ultra.

I have never been able to understand it either, because the built in one is fine.

 

[Grze Gorz]

I have never been able to understand it either, because the built in one is fine.

Of course it is good enough for its price, but if you can change something slightly at a low cost, why not

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Of course it is good enough for its price, but if you can change something slightly at a low cost, why not

I certainly don't feel the need to waste more money on an unnecessary add on extra that might, or might not make any perceivable difference to my sound.

 

[Grze Gorz]

I certainly don't feel the need to waste more money on an unnecessary add on extra that might, or might not make any perceivable difference to my sound.

You don't feel the need, it doesn't mean that others don't have it... that's why audio is an interesting hobby

 

[QuarryHunslet]

You don't feel the need, it doesn't mean that others don't have it... that's why audio is an interesting hobby

I fully understand that, and have been interested in Hi-Fi for around 50 years, and spent a fair amount on equipment in that time.

 

[hgo58]

I use my equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment.

 

[Grze Gorz]

I use my equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment.

Of course ! And you have to stick to this

 

[robtw62]

I've just acquired a Fiio K11 R2R which I now connect to my wiim ultra via USB.

Something I noticed immediately using the external DAC is that if I manually select a song from my tidal playlist there is a feint pop almost each time I do this.

As far as sound quality goes, the first song I listened to on the wiim ultra (with Fiio volume set at 94 and DAC on NOS mode) actually startled me as it did sound clearer from the outset. But, to avoid the placebo effect, I'll keep an open mind and classify it as different until I've done more listening to both.

Since I've got the wiim ultra line out set at 2vrms, and the Fiio K11 R2R line out is 2.7vrms I'm using the Fiio variable volume to get the 2 playing at similar volume. So far I'm finding setting the Fiio volume at 94 is getting close (ChatGPT advice that I started with).

Just wondering if anyone has figured out their Fiio K11 R2R volume setting to do a comparison of the two at similar volumes?

 

[Mr Ee]

there is a feint pop almost each time I do this.

I have noticed a faint pop sometimes with the k11 r2r, but it's not so bothersome that I've tried addressing it with some of the options in the wiim app.

I preferred OS over NOS; and as for volume matching, seems too difficult for me to achieve with any level of accuracy for "switching" comparisons so I tend to just use one or another configuration/setup for each session, especially as I might adjust the volume throughout anyway as certain tracks come on.

 

[robtw62]

Now that I've listened to the wiim ultra via usb to the Fiio K11 R2R, I notice 2 very feint pops between tracks on my Tidal playlist as songs are played in random order. It's fortunately not related to volume so isn't much of an issue.

I haven't done much of a comparison yet, but do get the impression this far the Fiio K11 R2R is clearer and warmer (less harsh in the treble). Since I sometimes listen to very loud music, I find the difference is more noticeable at very loud volumes. I can fully understand that at low volumes the difference is not easy to notice if noticeable at all.

 

[robtw62]

Of the wiim ultra's own digital filters, I found Corrected Minimum Phase Fast Roll-Off Filter produced the best sound with very loud music.

Subjectively I was not impressed knowing that with this filter the high frequencies roll-off a lot more with the DAC operating at 44.1khz. But it did produce the least harsh treble at very high volume.

 

[Vignus]

Of the wiim ultra's own digital filters, I found Corrected Minimum Phase Fast Roll-Off Filter produced the best sound with very loud music.

Subjectively I was not impressed knowing that with this filter the high frequencies roll-off a lot more with the DAC operating at 44.1khz. But it did produce the least harsh treble at very high volume.

To me it's pretty amazing that you can hear differences between (any) DAC filter!

 

[robtw62]

Until quite recently I agreed with you. But listening to very loud music exacerbates problems.

I was using the default wiim ultra filter: Linear Phase Fast Roll-off Filter type.

I found the song All By Myself by Celine Dion (1996) was harsh in the treble at very loud volumes.

So I tried all of the wiim ultra filters in the order that I'd prefer next best looking at their frequency curves. Every one sounded better each time.

The last one I tried, the one I least wanted to sound best knowing the frequency curves, was Corrected Minimum Phase Fast Roll-Off Filter.

So I used that filter for all my listening, loud and normal, and actually found I was enjoying all the music more.

This intrigued me so I started reading up on DAC filters, which is when I learnt about NOS. On examining the Fiio K11 R2R frequency curve I saw it performed almost as well as the wiim default filter, only down about 2.5db at 20khz, so I thought to give it a try - I do prefer a DAC respecting a 20hz to 20khz flat frequency response, but it's got to sound good with all music I listen to - I don't like fidgeting with tone controls.

And now I'm enjoying the music more at any level using the Fiio NOS mode DAC.

I must reiterate that I could only decide a difference at very loud volumes. And can fully understand one not being able to hear the difference at normal listening levels.