Connection of WiiM Ultra to active speakers - the optimum way?

[MrChips]

Hi. I’ve just upgraded from a WiiM Pro to Ultra and the improvement in sound quality is definitely noticeable. My Ultra is connected to my Kanto YU6 speakers using optical and my TV to Ultra using HDMI but it occurred to me are both DACs being used, as in the DAC in the Ultra and the DAC in the Kanto speakers, in other words serially connected DACs? And would it be better (I’ve not tried this yet and is more of an educational question) to connect the Ultra to the Kanto speakers using line out so that only the Ultra DAC is used? Apologies if this is a daft question. Thanks.

 

[PS Panda]

Hi. I’ve just upgraded from a WiiM Pro to Ultra and the improvement in sound quality is definitely noticeable. My Ultra is connected to my Kanto YU6 speakers using optical and my TV to Ultra using HDMI but it occurred to me are both DACs being used, as in the DAC in the Ultra and the DAC in the Kanto speakers, in other words serially connected DACs? And would it be better (I’ve not tried this yet and is more of an educational question) to connect the Ultra to the Kanto speakers using line out so that only the Ultra DAC is used? Apologies if this is a daft question. Thanks.

That's the same as my setup, except that I'm using KEF LSX as my speakers. It's my understanding that the only DACs presently in use in my system are the ones in my speakers and that the Ultra is operating as a digital transport (with EQ) only. If I were to connect the rca outs of my Ultra to the analogue in of my speakers that that would definitely insert an unwanted DAC and ADC into my system and I think that might also be true for your rig depending on whether your speakers convert incoming analogue to internal digital. Otherwise, you've got the option of using the Ultra's DAC or the Kanto's DAC. It's time to experiment and see which you prefer!

 

[Burnside]

If you’re using digital output from the Ultra then you’re not using it’s DAC - remember DAC stands for digital to analog converter. If your device is outputting digital no conversion has taken place I.e. the DAC hasn’t been used.

Conversely, if you use the Ultra’s analog line out, conversion has taken place hence its DAC was used.

 

[MrChips]

Nice speakers! My understanding - which may be entirely incorrect - is that any analogue input into the speakers would be amplified only and bypass the internal speaker DAC? You’re right though experimentation is needed assuming I can hear a difference.

 

[slartibartfast]

Nice speakers! My understanding - which may be entirely incorrect - is that any analogue input into the speakers would be amplified only and bypass the internal speaker DAC? You’re right though experimentation is needed assuming I can hear a difference.

According to this the analogue input of Kefs is passed through an ADC.

Connecting An Analog Source To Your LS Wireless

We often get questions regarding connecting an analog source, such as a turntable to any of our LS Wireless products (LSXII, LS50 Wireless II and LS60 Wireless).

au.kef.com

 

[Mr Ee]

How was the Pro connected previously?
Both the adc and dac in the ultra are better than the pro, but I can't say that I've personally noticed a difference with optical output from something like Tidal.
And use whichever connection sounds best / is most convenient

 

[MrChips]

Pro was connected same way to the speakers (optical) but was connected to TV with optical but I definitely hear an improvement both on TV and streaming music on the Ultra - the EQ on the Ultra is far more influential than the Pro EQ, the difference is huge. I’m experimenting now having just connected line out from my Ultra to speakers.

 

[MrChips]

I’ve discovered that my Kanto YU6 speakers don’t use ADC to DAC for any of the analogue inputs and they are purely amplified (different to the Kefs).

Everything you need to know about a DAC | Kanto Audio

A DAC is what enables your audio device to play sounds. Learn how to know if and when you're using the right DAC for your sound setup.

blog.kantoaudio.com

The digital inputs of course use the speaker DAC.

 

[Burnside]

I’ve discovered that my Kanto YU6 speakers don’t use a DAC for any of the analogue inputs and they are purely amplified (different to the Kefs).

Everything you need to know about a DAC | Kanto Audio

A DAC is what enables your audio device to play sounds. Learn how to know if and when you're using the right DAC for your sound setup.

blog.kantoaudio.com

The digital inputs of course use the speaker DAC.

Again, by definition, DACs don't have analogue inputs - they take a digital input and convert it to an analog output.

 

[MrChips]

Thanks. I understand how it works but without knowing the design internals of the active speakers then it’s impossible to know if the analogue inputs go through an ADC before then going through a DAC like the Kefs. I failed to mention the ADC but wasn’t sure if some digital conversion was used at some point in the chain from the analogue inputs on my Kanto speakers - I understand it would also need an ADC for this too. And it seems this is the case for the Kefs but not the Kanto. So I’ve definitely learned something today about how active speakers vary in design. I know about ADC, DAC etc.

I have been experimenting changing outputs on my Ultra between optical and line out. I first matched by ear the volume levels between the line and optical out - 1 Vrms seemed about the same. I also noticed that a new menu option appeared when selecting line out: DAC digital filter type (reassuring ). Swapping between the two outputs of the Ultra there wasn’t a huge difference but the line out to me seemed to have better highlights on some of the tracks I use to listen for sound quality. I wasn’t sure what to expect but was interested to find out if there was much of a difference if at all. At least I know for sure I’m using only one DAC in the chain and only within the Ultra. I’ll experiment some more but I’ll leave my Ultra on line out for now. Thanks for everyone’s replies and maybe this discussion might be of help to others if they have the same question.

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks. I understand how it works but without knowing the design internals of the active speakers then it’s impossible to know if the analogue inputs go through an ADC before then going through a DAC like the Kefs. I failed to mention the ADC but wasn’t sure if some digital conversion was used at some point in the chain from the analogue inputs on my Kanto speakers - I understand it would also need an ADC for this too. And it seems this is the case for the Kefs but not the Kanto. So I’ve definitely learned something today about how active speakers vary in design. I know about ADC, DAC etc.

I have been experimenting changing outputs on my Ultra between optical and line out. I first matched by ear the volume levels between the line and optical out - 1 Vrms seemed about the same. I also noticed that a new menu option appeared when selecting line out: DAC digital filter type (reassuring ). Swapping between the two outputs of the Ultra there wasn’t a huge difference but the line out to me seemed to have better highlights on some of the tracks I use to listen for sound quality. I wasn’t sure what to expect but was interested to find out if there was much of a difference if at all. At least I know for sure I’m using only one DAC in the chain and only within the Ultra. I’ll experiment some more but I’ll leave my Ultra on line out for now. Thanks for everyone’s replies and maybe this discussion might be of help to others if they have the same question.

It would be interesting to compare the amount of audio delay between the analog and digital outputs from the Ultra. You can play the Youtube delay test on your TV to see which output has more delay.

 

[MrChips]

I don’t see any audio delay between optical and line out of the YouTube tests I used. Not noticeable to my eyes anyway.