Features wanted in a Wiim Ultra 2

[steadyshot]

The problem with your idea is it requires multiple different production runs of various products with different features. That doesn't always work well for mass produced products. It may actually be more cost effective to have a more standardized product that includes features not every one uses. While that may annoy the more obsessive audiophiles, keep in mind they are a very small portion of the market. And many of those people would never lower themselves to purchase something so un-snobbishly pedestrian as a WiiM anyway.

FYI Wiim ultra is bought by audiophiles and not by mass market consumers which buy Bluetooth all in one speakers . Same with Cambridge audio mxn 10 and Bluesound node nano and same with the new ifi zen stream 3 which are all around the price of Wiim ultra … ASR type of audience among budget audiophiles is the minority

 

[mlsstl]

FYI Wiim ultra is bought by audiophiles and not by mass market consumers which buy Bluetooth all in one speakers . Same with Cambridge audio mxn 10 and Bluesound node nano and same with the new ifi zen stream 3 which are all around the price of Wiim ultra … ASR type of audience among budget audiophiles is the minority

Unless you or I have access to WiiMs management data and strategy, we are both just speculating. Amazon shows that over 1,000 Ultras were sold in the last month. That's about the same number as for the Pro. The Pro Plus figure was 500. Perhaps a lot of non-audiophile buyers just like the Ultra's screen! Sub dividing the Ultra's sales into multiple products with different features would almost certainly reduce production efficiency while lowering the sales numbers of each. We can only wait to see what WiiM decides to do next.

 

[RazzFazz]

By the way, is there a degree available that justifies one to call himself 'audiophile' with a nice certificate in a frame? Eventually build as part of the room treatment? Or is it only a sophomoric phantasy breamed by some scientific looking graphics?

 

[TonyE]

PRESENT:

IMHO, look at Schitt's strategy. They started by making good headphone amps that can easily drive all kinds of headphones and amps... Then they brought out really good USB DACs. Note how they make their units with a plug in USB-DAC module... that's some of their strengths

A lot of attention to the design of the analog output - Jason Goddard.
A plug in card for USB-DACs think upgrades.
A lot of attention to the DAC - Mike Moffat is a genius from the very beginning.

You can get a really, really good USB DAC with headphone amp for 200 bucks. My daughter is running a Magni with the Mesh DAC. It works right out of her computer and powers a pair Quad 9LS Actives. That little combination blows 99% of the audio systems in the world... kid you not.

Currently, I only use about 25% of what the Ultra can do - the Audio over IP part. It has some serious shortcomings on its DAC/analog output sections.

In one of my set ups, I run a Nitsch Pietus Maximus with the Multibit DAC - Unison USB. Which is a small, boutique version of a Jotunheim with an upgraded DAC and even more powerful, tweaked analog output and some "tuning" to add "triode" sound.

With the Ultra in the system that has the most accurate reproduction, this thing is amazing. I removed the preamp from the system... as this is a one source system - actually, the Nitsch has an analog input as well.

Then, in the Schitt world you go up and up from there. But honestly, I don't know why...

So, what I've found out so far is the Ultra with a good USB-DAC is a killer combination... better than the Solos. Or pretty much any of those $4000 Audiophile High End Signature versions...

By itself, like in the HT, the Ultra is fine but doesn't sound so engaging. It's actually a bit dry, with a shallow soundstage and a rather boring sound. It sounds like... "Hi Fi".

However, If you need bit perfect reproduction and are running Android or Chromebook and using a USB-DAC, the Ultra is the obvious option. Just use 25% of what is can do. With the proper DAC it makes for an extremely good sounding streamer front end.

FUTURE?

Upgrade the DAC and analog preamp sections.

In a perfect World, the WiiM and Schitt teams would get together, have a few beers and come out with a killer all in one with the WiiM network front and the USB/DAC-preamp sections of a Shitt.

Perhaps... the WiiM Team could keep the front end of the streamer with their room correction, add a plug in card slot, and release their product under license from Schitt... just like Christian Tanimoto did over at Nitsch.

Pietus Maximus

Honey, I Swole the Piety Jason Stoddard, the analog genius at Schiit Audio, got curious and wondered what a “big” version of the NITSCH × Schiit Magni Piety amp would sound like. So he built one…and it sounded great! He needed to share the discovery with somebody and kindly sent one to NITSCH...

nitschsound.com

IMHO, that would be the One And All: Streamer, DAC, preamp.

Oh, please, fix the WiiM Home PC version.

 

[EddNog]

By the way, is there a degree available that justifies one to call himself 'audiophile' with a nice certificate in a frame? Eventually build as part of the room treatment? Or is it only a sophomoric phantasy breamed by some scientific looking graphics?

No no no…you can’t call yourself one; someone else needs to declare you one.

-Ed

 

[RazzFazz]

No no no…you can’t call yourself one; someone else needs to declare you one.

-Ed

Great, shall we?

 

[steadyshot]

I consider audiophile anyone who spends in total for an audio system >1k$

 

[RazzFazz]

I consider audiophile anyone who spends in total for an audio system >1k$

Veto! I do this since ages and I would call myself 'audiophilophob' and this phobia is growing every day.

 

[TonyE]

I consider audiophile anyone who spends in total for an audio system >1k$

OMG, $1K, that must be a typo?

Does that include your interconnect and speaker cables?

How about the number of amps, preamps, speakers, boxes of cables, power supplies, number of audio systems in the house, etc...

 

[steadyshot]

Unless you or I have access to WiiMs management data and strategy, we are both just speculating. Amazon shows that over 1,000 Ultrasound were sold in the last month. That's about the same number as for the Pro. The Pro Plus figure was 500. Perhaps a lot of non-audiophile buyers just like the Ultra's screen! Sub dividing the Ultra's sales into multiple products with different features would almost certainly reduce production efficiency while lowering the sales numbers of each. We can only wait to see what will decides to do next.

Yes sure . However that means they have to rethink which models to keep selling which to stop and which to replace with new.

With regards to the new models if they are good enough compared to the competitors they are going to steal market share and in total they can sell much more than the existing ultra

 

[rccarguy]

OMG, $1K, that must be a typo?

Does that include your interconnect and speaker cables?

How about the number of amps, preamps, speakers, boxes of cables, power supplies, number of audio systems in the house, etc...

You're not a audiophile unless you change all your fuses with these

Quantum Science Audio (QSA) Gold Extreme Level UK Mains Fuse (13A)

Future Shop is thrilled to unveil Quantum Science Audio (QSA), renowned for its expertise in the audiophile fuse domain. With over 22 years of delving into 'Bottle Neck Distortion', QSA fuses offer remarkable system enhancements previously underestimated in the industry. These fuses focus on...

www.futureshop.co.uk

 

[EddNog]

I consider audiophile anyone who spends in total for an audio system >1k$

Bruh my speakers alone were over $1K and I bought them open box; MSRP over $2K. My sub also MSRPs over $1K (I bought it open box too, paid $700). My amps combine for over $1K MSRP (also spent under $900 for them open box).

And I considered this a relatively average cost setup, neither cheap nor exorbitant . ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

 

[mlsstl]

Yes sure . However that means they have to rethink which models to keep selling which to stop and which to replace with new.

With regards to the new models if they are good enough compared to the competitors they are going to steal market share and in total they can sell much more than the existing ultra

Time will tell what WiiM decides to do....

 

[steadyshot]

Bruh my speakers alone were over $1K and I bought them open box; MSRP over $2K. My sub also MSRPs over $1K (I bought it open box too, paid $700). My amps combine for over $1K MSRP (also spent under $900 for them open box).

And I considered this a relatively average cost setup, neither cheap nor exorbitant . ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

i have set the lower limit to capture the market of total audiophiles. Of course it starts from entry level to ultra high end. So?

 

[mlsstl]

PRESENT:

IMHO, look at Schitt's strategy. They started by making good headphone amps that can easily drive all kinds of headphones and amps... Then they brought out really good USB DACs. Note how they make their units with a plug in USB-DAC module... that's some of their strengths.... By itself, like in the HT, the Ultra is fine but doesn't sound so engaging. It's actually a bit dry, with a shallow soundstage and a rather boring sound. It sounds like... "Hi Fi"

I've owned quite a bit of Schiit gear (and still have a couple of their devices) and think they are a great company that makes great products at very reasonable prices. But I sold my Bifrost 2 DAC after doing back-to-back, level matched comparison against the Ultra's DAC. I also moved on from my Lyr3/Aegir combo when I got the Vibelink amp.

Perhaps I'm a cloth-eared rube, but I've long known I'm by far the biggest variable in my system. Whatever difference there was between the Ultra's DAC and the Bifrost and the Vibelink vs Lyr/Aegir was either in my imagination or was so subtle that it paled in comparison for me. By several multitudes I'm far more aware of the differences in recording quality of the albums I play. But, then I also refuse to call myself an audiophile -- way too much pretense associated with that term.

 

[steadyshot]

Your are all audiophiles in denial.

 

[Ronnie D]

Your are all audiophiles in denial.

How dare you!

 

[EddNog]

Your are all audiophiles in denial.

Who says I deny it?!

-Ed

 

[TonyE]

I've owned quite a bit of Schiit gear (and still have a couple of their devices) and think they are a great company that makes great products at very reasonable prices. But I sold my Bifrost 2 DAC after doing back-to-back, level matched comparison against the Ultra's DAC. I also moved on from my Lyr3/Aegir combo when I got the Vibelink amp.

Perhaps I'm a cloth-eared rube, but I've long known I'm by far the biggest variable in my system. Whatever difference there was between the Ultra's DAC and the Bifrost and the Vibelink vs Lyr/Aegir was either in my imagination or was so subtle that it paled in comparison for me. By several multitudes I'm far more aware of the differences in recording quality of the albums I play. But, then I also refuse to call myself an audiophile -- way too much pretense associated with that term.

Hello, my name is Tony and I am an audiophile.

I became an audiophile first, while Nixon was still in office, and then sort of fell into Physics as I discovered what all of those graphs in Stereo Review, Audio and High Fidelity meant. I mean, I was a ASR type of guy before the parents of the kids running ASR had even met... I knew what THD was by the time I was a freshman in High School. Took Physics as a junior... Audiophilia chose my career. ;-)

Then I started to listen and correlate and got myself a diploma along the way. (*).

Now, I gotta tell you... perhaps your system is simply not of enough resolution... of course! But seriously.. I do hear the difference, and it's not so much in the DAC but it is in the analog preamp section. I recently removed the preamp from my Home Office system and it was an eye opener (the preamps I have available are very good...). Then you got the amps, which in my case are pretty good (**)... and my speakers... they have superb Impulse Response ( one way no crossovers, or small two ways, or two ways dipoles... nothing in the way of multi driver monstrosities ). (***)

Turns out that a Class A SS state will sound very different from a Class D amp. Whether you like it, well, it's up to you and what you want. They indeed sound different. It really has little to do with the DAC and the preamp. The Ncore amps are some of the best, by far, but they also lack the "sugar" of a good Class A SIT amp. Or a VFET... with their triode like transconductance.. ICE... yuck. I honestly prefer a little bit of negative 2nd order harmonic, it makes the music sound "richer" with more overtones ( LOL ).

As an audiophile I know which type of distortion I like. I embrace some distortion and abhor others ( 4th... yuck). How to balance the SIT with the MOSFET... Hope it won's smoke.

Schitt gear, I've only bought their DACs and headphone amps.

BTW- Mike Moffat designs for Schitt. He is something very special... But what makes them so good is that they begun as headphone amplifier guys. They got that part down right from the very beginning.

Oh turntable... I just plunked down for the Lingo 4. I told my wife I was upgrading the turntable, again... didn't tell her how much. Yeah, some records suck... but if I like the music... well... Played Clapton's Tears In Heaven, Unplugged.. both the 24/96 from Tidal and then the LP. My wife had tears in her eyes (I was trying hard to hold them back) after the LP. I mean, for whatever reason, the LP transformed the performance. The DAC in that system is a WiiM Ultra with Burson with Burson Vivid V7 opamps... the phono preamp also has Burson Vivid V7.... so the front ends are actually pretty close... except maybe... well, the table/cartridge are something special -no Over The Top High End, but symbiotically they are perfect and well tuned.

(*) The Wizard thinks I must be smart because I got me a Diploma... Funny... but my wife lost our diplomas... she doesn't know where she put them.

(**) I got all kinds of amps... Bipolar, Thermionic, ICE, NCore, FETs, VFETs, SITs, tubes, triode sounding things, Class A, Class AB, Class D... you name it... I got some that sounded fantastic but decided to smoke and blow some expensive British woofers, you name it. I'm also rather cheap so I like to bias my own amps and buy mostly used or DIY.

(***) The sound quality of a speaker actually has very little bearing with their cost. This is where being an audiophile and knowing helps a lot... it's like the wine connoisseur that can pick the wonderful $15 bottle of wine. I can put together a $700 speaker system that will blow your mind.