Features wanted in a Wiim Ultra 2

[TonyE]

Why? There are so many fine phono preamps in the market... with the ability to do MC and MM and adjust the load.

Phono Preamplifiers - Vinyl Playback Excellence | Audio Advisor

Discover Audio Advisor's Phono Preamplifiers category and unlock the true potential of your vinyl collection. Elevate your listening experience with our diverse range of offerings from esteemed brands like Pro-Ject, Cambridge Audio, and Musical Fidelity.

www.audioadvisor.com

And then you have this... mine is much nicer... with the nice case and the op amps rolling, etc...

Listening to Brubeck over Tidal Hifi on my Nuforce DDA100 and AE1s... best near field system... well, I'm thinking of putting the D90LE with a Nuforce STA200 in there.. The Pearl 3 is an awesome phono preamp.

( Mind you, he has a P5 with a mid tier cartridge... not exactly a top tier front end... yet is starts to give you a glimpse of what LPs can sound like ).

IMHO, many people are getting into LPs not realizing that it is a very expensive proposition to do it right. A cheap turntable, cheap MM cartridge and cheap phono preamp will sound... cheap. Unless you are truly serious, get some experience and are willing to spend significant money, you're better off spending 600 to 1000 bucks on a DAC/preamp and streaming Hi Rez files.

Example, I just got the 45RPM version of Thelonious Monk Straight No Chaser ( I have three or four copies already )... That blows DACs away... but, but, I already have spent the money, time and 52 years of experience owing a turntable...

 

[Roedelheim]

My Lorna Peebles loves her Mr. Lehmann, but that is a totally different case.
I do not have an Ultra - but the Amp Ultra - and see it as a very good entry level pre-amplifier and of course there are users who love to make first steps in vinyl.

 

[TonyE]

BTW, every stereo system should have a couple of DMMs hooked up to it. ;-)

Yes, first steps in vinyl... I would not recommend that. Honestly. Digital has gotten so good that, except for the nostalgia, you can get FAR better sound... unless you are truly willing to spend serious bucks and are sitting on thousands of LPs. By serious... the Lingo 4 upgrade is costing 3000+ bucks alone. It's the sign of absolute lunacy ( well, I work from home, go nowhere, so... ). If I were smart, I'd sell the LPs, the turntable, the phono preamps ( got a bunch ), the vintage units, etc.. and just build systems around an Ultra, DAC and nice monoblocks.

My wife would love the uncluttering.

The only reason why I do LPs is because I'm sitting on 4000... so, it makes "some" sense to me. But 95% of my listening nowadays is from Tidal HiFi. The systems in my home office are strictly digital and they sound fantastic.

... but yet... the analog rig conveys the emotion better. I don't know why this is the case.

 

[Roedelheim]

15 years ago I was infected by vinyl although I grew up of course with cds. Chasing and collecting special pressings gives me one of the most fun aspects in the hobby. When I leave this earth I don't give a shit what happens to it. That's not an investment, it's fun.

 

[TonyE]

CDs.... well, of course you found LPs. I listen mostly to Hi Rez down streams. Although modern DACs do a reasonable job with Redbook.

Collecting special pressings... I got the complete reissues of Decca, Chesky, Columbia, etc... and now the pendejos are reissuing them in 45rpm.. Just started with Bruno Walter's Beethoven Symphonies...

Never ending. When I die I told my kids to build me a mausoleum, embalm me and bury me with my turntable and LPs. My son noted it might be more convenient if they bury me with a picture of the stereo. Figures.

Anyhow, I see little value for a phono preamp in the Ultra 2. It will likely be an afterthough as the current one. Just add a second AUX input and let the users go buy their own phono preamp. Lehman makes some very nice units indeed.

 

[harkpabst]

Sure there are lots and lots of fine phono pre-amps. But WiiM have a strong standing in the lifestyle oriented Hi-Fi market (even if those fooling around in Internet forums seem to think of them as high value mid- to high-end products). Having a single box and active speakers (or a power amp hidden away) is totally a common use case.

The current phono input is "good enough" for highish output MM cartridges. It is just borderline usable with high-output MCs like e.g. the legendary Denon DL-110. And for this exact case I'd like to have a better quality, lower noise phono input. If this could be made switchable between phono and line level, all the better.

 

[TonyE]

Bose owns the "lifestyle market"

Just spend the money where it makes the most improvement and let Bose own the lifestyle.

Denon DL-110. Entry level. Zu actually grades them, there's a lot of variation in the production.

I guess I'm not into "lifestyle" myself. I like my amps to make an "audiophile" statement... 5U, 18 inches wide, 500mm deep, monoblocks, class A heaters. Handles in front AND back. Sound before looks, always!

Although my latest amp has switching power supplies with heavy duty filtering... and I am intrigued with Purify... I already own NCore, ICE, Nuforce and some Teacs with class D amps.

I use to have limits... always wanted an ARC VT200 until I saw one in the metal. Yikes... today, it seems small. Have you seen those big Mac monoblocks? If the used market hadn't been twisted by the greed in eBay, I might have a CJ Premier One by now.

The BoM for a reasonable quality phono preamp with switchable gain for MC and MM would run 50 bucks for middle of the road parts. What would that run in the MSRP?

 

[harkpabst]

I cannot remember Zu Audio selling the DL-110. It's a very pleasing pickup.

The built-in phono stage is really important for a device as versatile as the WiiM Ultra.

 

[slartibartfast]

I cannot remember Zu Audio selling the DL-110. It's a very pleasing pickup.

The built-in phono stage is really important for a device as versatile as the WiiM Ultra.

Yup. Seems to be just DL-103

 

[mlsstl]

I cannot remember Zu Audio selling the DL-110. It's a very pleasing pickup.

The built-in phono stage is really important for a device as versatile as the WiiM Ultra.

I agree -- the phono input on the Ultra is a nice feature. I've had my Ultra for about a year and a half and never used the phono input until a few days ago. My 8 year old grandson was over and had never seen a LP or 45. So, I hauled up the old Dual turntable from the basement, plugged it in, and showed him how to handle records and start the needle on the lead-in track, change speeds, use the tonearm lift/drop buttons and so on. He got a kick out of the manual process to play music and liked the old Beatles 45s which I've had around since I was a young teen in the 1960s. Have to say the thin paper covers haven't held up too well...

I play all of my music via streaming these days (local, Qobuz and internet radio). Transferred my LPs and open reels to digital years ago and ripped my CDs. Sold the open reel and CD player but keep the turntable around -- half for nostalgia and half because I occasionally am asked by a friend to transfer an old LP. Can use the drive on the PC for ripping any CDs I stumble across.

 

[r5yk5]

An all in one solution at a reasonable price makes sense to plenty of potential customers. On of our lads has just managed to move in to a little flat with his girlfriend both of whom love their music including their modest record collection. They haven't got the time, room or spare cash to faff about with seperate phono pre amps, fancy speaker stands, external dacs and what have you. A wiim ultra is perfect for them. It makes their cobbled together equipment sound good, adds streaming capabilities to it and they love it.

 

[canard]

CDs.... well, of course you found LPs. I listen mostly to Hi Rez down streams. Although modern DACs do a reasonable job with Redbook.

Collecting special pressings... I got the complete reissues of Decca, Chesky, Columbia, etc... and now the pendejos are reissuing them in 45rpm.. Just started with Bruno Walter's Beethoven Symphonies...

Never ending. When I die I told my kids to build me a mausoleum, embalm me and bury me with my turntable and LPs. My son noted it might be more convenient if they bury me with a picture of the stereo. Figures.

Anyhow, I see little value for a phono preamp in the Ultra 2. It will likely be an afterthough as the current one. Just add a second AUX input and let the users go buy their own phono preamp. Lehman makes some very nice units indeed.

Like your idée..
For simplicity, we could suggest removing all digital outputs because... an internal DAC, which is unquestionable in the ASR style... Sinad at 1kHz etc. "Top"...
;-))

 

[TonyE]

Yup. Seems to be just DL-103

My mistake.

Zu DL/103R Mk.II phono cartridge | Zu Audio | Hi-Fi audio speakers and cables hand built in the USA

[Sold Out] [UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, WE ARE NOT IN PRODUCTION WITH ZU/DL-103R PICKUPS. WE ARE WAITING TO SEE HOW DENON HOME AUDIO EMERGES.] The Zu/DL-103R Mk.II is a high performance 2-channel stereo moving coil phonograph pickup. The R version has revised coil winding and wire, resulting in lower in

www.zuaudio.com

 

[canard]

Re-bodying, either of a DL103, or a DL103R ( copper 6n)...
But twice...conical

 

[TonyE]

Re-bodying, either of a DL103, or a DL103R ( copper 6n)...
But twice...conical

I believe they do more than just that. They also measure them and grade them. There's a reason for the low price of the DL-103.. they have somewhat loose tolerances in production. So they spend time measuring them and pricing them accordingly.

I would like to get my hands on their top grade but everytime I'm thinking seriously of getting one they are out of stock.

 

[canard]

The overall approach remains the same... including the cantilever/conical diamond aspect
The first appeal of the DL103 was its low price for a MC and the tolerance of the conical (but this needs to be put into perspective as it has a very limited lifespan). When you're playing around with moving upmarket/cost within the range, does it always make sense?
;-)

 

[harkpabst]

I believe they do more than just that. They also measure them and grade them.

Well, I won't say they don't measure and grade these cartridges, because I have no evidence for that. However, I have never heard anybody complaining about the tolerances of the stock DL-103 or DL-103R prior to Zu claiming to grade them. Have you?

Each and every DL-103/R comes with an individual frequency plot. If you buy the Zu version you get this original plot, nothing else. Their own measuring results remain secret to them. Why?

There's a reason for the low price of the DL-103.

The first appeal of the DL103 was its low price for a MC and the tolerance of the conical (but this needs to be put into perspective as it has a very limited lifespan). When you're playing around with moving upmarket/cost within the range, does it always make sense?

Unfortunately, even the stock DL-103 is no longer cheap. This may (or may not) mean it's no longer worth its price. A pickup that has been in production for 56 years continually and still has a strong fan base cannot be completely off the track.

 

[canard]

The unspoken issue...
which is more concerning given the higher price... is its short lifespan... originally, the brand's replacement program offset this... but what about now?
(A cruel friend points them out as being mainly intended for use as magnets on the fridge....)