hi-res audio setup isn’t working as expected

[Jeff C]

Help me understand hi-res audio streaming

Hey everyone,

I need some help understanding why my hi-res audio setup isn’t working as expected. Here are the details of my two setups:

1. Wired setup: When I use my iFi DAC, the sound is superb.
- Setup: iPad streaming hi-res audio (Tidal) > wired to the DAC > wired to the amp
- Result: Excellent sound with “punchy bass”

2. Streaming setup: Using my brand new WiiM.
- Setup: iPhone with Tidal > WiiM > RCA to amp
- Result: Sounds “ok” but does not have the same quality or punchy bass

I was expecting the same or even better results with my new WiiM setup, but it’s falling short. What am I missing here? Any advice on how to optimize this setup would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Jeff C]

Image of the gear:

 

[bherren]

What happens if you wire the WiiM to the DAC instead of using the internal one ? (Also make sure to bump the max digital output quality in the WiiM to whatever is best your DAC supports). Does that make a difference?

Another thing to look at is wether you have some EQ enabled in the WiiM and what your TIDAL quality setting is in WiiM.

The WiiM Pro Plus is supposed to be mostly transparent, at least within the audible frequency range (and mine has perfectly fine bass).

Also check your DAC doesn't have some kind of 'loudness' setting enabled...

 

[Jeff C]

Thanks for the reply.

1- The ifi DAC only allows USB input. I need an adapter from optical to usb to try that.

2- Yes, I attempted to match the EQ on the WiiM to the DAC - which has a loudness setting.

 

[Griff]

The Zen dac uses something called 'truebass' which from their marketing could well enhance the lower frequencies. The WIIM will not do this by default.

You could try and eq the WIIM to 'dial' in the sound to be more towards your preference.

 

[Mr Ee]

I'm prepared for the onslaught, but what RCA cables are you using out of the wiim?
The ones it came with?
Got any others to try?

 

[Wiimer]

iFi ZenDAC Review

The iFi Zen DAC is a $129 Digital-to-Analog (DAC) converter and headphone amplifier that is bound to get some interest for entry-level audiophiles and people looking for a small unit to use at work or to take with them on the go. The small unit takes on a new look than previous industrial...

headphones.com

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks for the reply.

1- The ifi DAC only allows USB input. I need an adapter from optical to usb to try that.

2- Yes, I attempted to match the EQ on the WiiM to the DAC - which has a loudness setting.

What does it sound like when PEQ is set like this and the volume limit is set to 85%?



Edit;
Perhaps, in this case, it would be better to add a subwoofer...

 

[Jeff C]

iFi ZenDAC Review

The iFi Zen DAC is a $129 Digital-to-Analog (DAC) converter and headphone amplifier that is bound to get some interest for entry-level audiophiles and people looking for a small unit to use at work or to take with them on the go. The small unit takes on a new look than previous industrial...

headphones.com

View attachment 7277

The Zen DAC does have a sweet sound and has high praises on many reviews. I do not think the WiiM internal DAC is the same - even when the iFi power match and trubass options are toggled off. The WiiM is not really designed to function as a DAC first and then a streamer. The Wiim’s strength is that of a streamer first. so it’s not expected to perform like a stand alone DAC.

WiiM support sent this suggestion: “…the issue may be due to the built-in DAC chip in the WiiM Pro Plus not being as high quality as the chip in your iFi DAC. You can try using the digital outputs (Coax Out/Optical Out) of the WiiM Pro Plus to connect to your DAC, and then use your DAC to connect to your amplifier.”

I am going to try

 

[Jeff C]

Thanks for the reply.

1- The ifi DAC only allows USB input. I need an adapter from optical to usb to try that.

2- Yes, I attempted to match the EQ on the WiiM to the DAC - which has a loudness setting.

What happens if you wire the WiiM to the DAC instead of using the internal one ? (Also make sure to bump the max digital output quality in the WiiM to whatever is best your DAC supports). Does that make a difference?

Another thing to look at is wether you have some EQ enabled in the WiiM and what your TIDAL quality setting is in WiiM.

The WiiM Pro Plus is supposed to be mostly transparent, at least within the audible frequency range (and mine has perfectly fine bass).

Also check your DAC doesn't have some kind of 'loudness' setting enabled...

I think the next best step is to bypass the WiiM’s internal dac and wire it with the optical out to the iFi DAC

 

[bherren]

Thanks for the reply.

1- The ifi DAC only allows USB input. I need an adapter from optical to usb to try that.

2- Yes, I attempted to match the EQ on the WiiM to the DAC - which has a loudness setting.

The Zen DAC does have a sweet sound and has high praises on many reviews. I do not think the WiiM internal DAC is the same - even when the iFi power match and trubass options are toggled off. The WiiM is not really designed to function as a DAC first and then a streamer. The Wiim’s strength is that of a streamer first. so it’s not expected to perform like a stand alone DAC.

WiiM support sent this suggestion: “…the issue may be due to the built-in DAC chip in the WiiM Pro Plus not being as high quality as the chip in your iFi DAC. You can try using the digital outputs (Coax Out/Optical Out) of the WiiM Pro Plus to connect to your DAC, and then use your DAC to connect to your amplifier.”

I am going to try

Considering how the WiiM Pro Plus DAC measures, any additional 'sweetness' in the Zen is probably distortion that you happen to like

 

[Jeff C]

Considering how the WiiM Pro Plus DAC measures, any additional 'sweetness' in the Zen is probably distortion that you happen to like

Not really distortion. Not even close. I can test the distortion with https://www.audiocheck.net/

Bottom line, the iFi DAC is superior to the WiiM’s internal DAC.

 

[harkpabst]

Now we know that.

Plus 10 dB.

 

[bherren]

Not really distortion. Not even close. I can test the distortion with https://www.audiocheck.net/

Bottom line, the iFi DAC is superior to the WiiM’s internal DAC.

How "superior" ... again the WiiM DAC is transparent within audible range. So what "magic" is iFi doing that makes qualify it as "superior" that doesn't involve changing the signal to something that isn't what it's supposed to be but you happen to like ?

 

[onlyoneme]

the WiiM DAC is transparent within audible range

How was it tested? How was it proven?

 

[Achim1811]

How was it tested? How was it proven?

Quadruple blind test

 

[cooky560]

I find I get plenty of bass from my pro plus. Indeed i can banish my tone controls to the land of “tone defeat”. However some people have reported changes with the cables they’re using. Otherwise it’s ticket to wiim to explore

 

[bherren]

I find I get plenty of bass from my pro plus. Indeed i can banish my tone controls to the land of “tone defeat”. However some people have reported changes with the cables they’re using. Otherwise it’s ticket to wiim to explore

The RCA cable that came with my WiiM has a rather poor contact and easily slides out of the connector on the amp side. I don't know if or how much it affected the sound (didn't hear a difference) but I replaced it with a more competent one regardless

 

[bherren]

How was it tested? How was it proven?

WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements Hi Folks, Here is another review, measurements-based, today about the WiiM Pro Plus (or "Pro+"). While some rumors already mentioned it for the last couple of months, it is just launched today (August 8) officially. The WiiM Pro Plus comes with a $220...

www.audiosciencereview.com

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Come to mind...

The original iFi Zen DAC was not nearly as good. I don't know about V2 (or even newer if there is such a thing), no time to dig more tonight. In any case, nothing here that can remotely relate to "punchy bass" other than a setting in the iFi that applies a boost EQ.

The WiiM Pro Plus analog out is excellent by all measures and plenty of ears including quite a few around these parts.

 

[onlyoneme]

WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements Hi Folks, Here is another review, measurements-based, today about the WiiM Pro Plus (or "Pro+"). While some rumors already mentioned it for the last couple of months, it is just launched today (August 8) officially. The WiiM Pro Plus comes with a $220...

www.audiosciencereview.com

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The WiiM Pro Plus analog out is excellent by all measures and plenty of ears including quite a few around these parts.

So the conclusion would be - as long as we listen to the static, sine waves and we don't care about the time domain, then distortions are below audibility threshold and we call it "transparent within audible range", right?