How to get the best sound using 'Headphones Only' with the Wiim Ultra ? Which output to use?

[Sake]

Hi All,

Very confident with the Wiim Ultra. Brilliant piece of equipment!

Most of the the time i like to play the Ultra with speakers thrue my amp and speakers, using Ultra's line out.

But often prefer the headphones. Especially later at night, so far, i connected the Ultra's line out to a headphone amp ( Pro-Ject Head Box S2 ) which solely adaps line in.

Sounds good, but wondering if this is a 'good' enough configuration to get the best sound of the Ultra with my pair of headphones?

Is there room for improvement that justify an additional investment in dedicated gear?

I am a noob about using optical out or usb from the Ultra.. Should it be a worthy upgrade buying a dedicated headphone amp with probably a dac build in?

Or leave the line out as it is, because it sounds also absolutely fine to my amp with normal floorstanding speakers ? ..

( I just simply splittet Ultra's Line Out: One set rca to the power amp's input en another set rca to the headphone amp's input )

Thanks for your thoughts in advance,
Sake

 

[Mr Ee]

Welcome.

Is there room for improvement that justify an additional investment in dedicated gear?

Always
Investment is the word I use to justify my addiction too...

it sounds also absolutely fine

To me this says you are very happy with what you have now.
(You didn't mention what headphones you are using.)

My opinion:
You'll hear more of a difference with different headphones than you will by using digital output into another dac/hp amp.
That's not to say that a different hp amp or dac/hp amp combo won't make your current headphones sound 'better', but you may well be able to achieve a similat level of difference / "betterness" from things like applying EQ within the ultra for your headphones.

Rather than splitting the ultra rca, can't you use the s2's rca loop?
Possibly won't make any actual difference, just wondering!.

If possible, I'd suggest taking your S2 and headphones to a store and trying different amps / dac amps / headphones to really see where you find any improvements significant enough for you to part with your hard earned cash.

 

[Wiimer]

Hi All,

Very confident with the Wiim Ultra. Brilliant piece of equipment!

Most of the the time i like to play the Ultra with speakers thrue my amp and speakers, using Ultra's line out.

But often prefer the headphones. Especially later at night, so far, i connected the Ultra's line out to a headphone amp ( Pro-Ject Head Box S2 ) which solely adaps line in.

Sounds good, but wondering if this is a 'good' enough configuration to get the best sound of the Ultra with my pair of headphones?

Is there room for improvement that justify an additional investment in dedicated gear?

I am a noob about using optical out or usb from the Ultra.. Should it be a worthy upgrade buying a dedicated headphone amp with probably a dac build in?

Or leave the line out as it is, because it sounds also absolutely fine to my amp with normal floorstanding speakers ? ..

( I just simply splittet Ultra's Line Out: One set rca to the power amp's input en another set rca to the headphone amp's input )

Thanks for your thoughts in advance,
Sake
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Hi,

I agree with @Mr Ee suggestion.
Are you using WiiM EQ or RC? I think it is worth a try.

If the frequency measurement of your headphones is already published, setting the correction value to the PEQ of the WiiM may improve the sound quality with better balance.

However, since you can't apply separate EQ to speakers and headphones with the current connections, it would make sense to add a DAC for the speakers or a headphone amp with digital inputs to separate the two outputs. (If you like the EQ.)

 

[Mr Ee]

However, since you can't apply separate EQ to speakers and headphones with the current connections, it would make sense to add a DAC for the speakers or a headphone amp with digital inputs to separate the two outputs. (If you like the EQ.)

Smart Presets!

Just yesterday I was using my 'phones and wondering why it didn't sound quite right.
Yet again, I'd forgotten to turn off EQ (room correction).

 

[Wiimer]

Smart Presets!

Just yesterday I was using my 'phones and wondering why it didn't sound quite right.
Yet again, I'd forgotten to turn off EQ (room correction).

If I am branching the line output of the Ultra, I can't use the Smart Preset, can I?
Or am I misunderstanding the OP's question again?
If so, sorry .

 

[Sake]

Thanks you all for your effort replying so quickly! And all others!

@Mr Ee , last year i bought a set of relatively cheap headphones, the Philips X2HR, together with the Project Headbox S2, a total investment of approx $250,00 . Considered te be a mid-fy solution, just good enough to save my marriage.

No more War:
To have a little fun for my own, ( yes!! ) when my wife sleeps and give my picky neighbours no reason to listen with a stetoscope at my front door, late night.

EQ:
For line out to my power amp and floorstanding speakers, EQ has been set on a bit more bass and a bit less treble. Because line out is bridged with the headphone amp these EQ settings also affects the headphones, which sound good to as well.

Keeping preferred EQ Settings?
The Ultra using with USB out for Headphones?
If i use optical or USB ( or optical ) output from the Ultra to a dedicated headphone amp, with or without a build in dac... Will we loose the EQ settings? Use is as a transporter only? I am a real dumb person on that...

Does the EQ / RC settings only affect on rca line-out? In that case a dedicated head amp ( connected optical or USB) will be less versatile, i suppose?

Thanks so far for all.
Curious .... Kind regards , Sake

 

[Mr Ee]

If i use optical or USB ( or optical ) output from the Ultra to a dedicated headphone amp, with or without a build in dac... Will we loose the EQ settings? Use is as a transporter only?

If you use digital out of the wiim then you must have an external dac; could be a one-box dac/hp amp or a two box solution.
The EQ settings are applied to the signal before being sent out, so no, you will not lose the EQ.

Because line out is bridged with the headphone amp these EQ settings also affects the headphones, which sound good to as well.

As long as you like it, that's all that really matters!
You could save different EQ settings for speakers and headphones and switch between them.

 

[Sake]

If you use digital out of the wiim then you must have an external dac; could be a one-box dac/hp amp or a two box solution.
The EQ settings are applied to the signal before being sent out, so no, you will not lose the EQ.



As long as you like it, that's all that really matters!
You could save different EQ settings for speakers and headphones and switch between them.

Thanks so much! Now i understand the possibilities, Super i.e FiiO K7 , maybe this headphone/dac amp sounds as good as it looks, and is not that expensive at approx $200

 

[Mr Ee]

My question would be, would it be noticeably/significantly "better" than your current setup?
Again, I'd really encourage you to find a store to try some stuff if you can. It's saved me a few 'looks nice and reviews well' purchases when I've listened and found it's not as good as I already have or something I wasn't looking at is better (for me).
One example - I was going to buy a topping dx3 pro+ (for a wiim mini headphone setup) but waited to go to a store. When I listened to it I wasn't particularly impressed. I then tried a fiio k11 (original) and preferred it. Bonus was it was cheaper too!
Downside... while I was there I bought some new headphones too... so beware!

 

[Wiimer]

You could save different EQ settings for speakers and headphones and switch between them.

Ah, it finally made sense. I was thinking of "Per-Output EQ" for some reason .

 

[Poultrygeist]

I'm not sold on any of the internal DAC's in WiiM streamers. Their products don't have enough mark up to afford a good DAC. With my Pro Plus I use its digital output to feed a Topping DX3 pro+ DAC/amp driving HiFiman Edition XS phones. The powerhouse Topping and XS is a stunning combination.

 

[hgo58]

I'm not sold on any of the internal DAC's in WiiM streamers. Their products don't have enough mark up to afford a good DAC. With my Pro Plus I use its digital output to feed a Topping DX3 pro+ DAC/amp driving HiFiman Edition XS phones. The powerhouse Topping and XS is a stunning combination.

What do price have to do with it? The DAC chipset price is a minor part of any implementation. Typically below $15.
It is all about how it is utilized.

Edit: Just checked the ES9038Q2M used by both WiiM Ultra and the Topping DX3 pro+. I cost $8 online.

 

[goodmore]

One of the things to always consider with headphones is comfort. If your current headphones are comfortable to you then you take a risk of losing that. In my opinion streaming to a pair of nice pair of comfortable headphones is as good as music gets. If there is a weak point for me in the system it is usually the recording itself. So much of my 70s rock was just badly recorded.

 

[hgo58]

Hi All,

Very confident with the Wiim Ultra. Brilliant piece of equipment!

Most of the the time i like to play the Ultra with speakers thrue my amp and speakers, using Ultra's line out.

But often prefer the headphones. Especially later at night, so far, i connected the Ultra's line out to a headphone amp ( Pro-Ject Head Box S2 ) which solely adaps line in.

Sounds good, but wondering if this is a 'good' enough configuration to get the best sound of the Ultra with my pair of headphones?

Is there room for improvement that justify an additional investment in dedicated gear?

I am a noob about using optical out or usb from the Ultra.. Should it be a worthy upgrade buying a dedicated headphone amp with probably a dac build in?

Or leave the line out as it is, because it sounds also absolutely fine to my amp with normal floorstanding speakers ? ..

( I just simply splittet Ultra's Line Out: One set rca to the power amp's input en another set rca to the headphone amp's input )

Thanks for your thoughts in advance,
Sake
View attachment 16993View attachment 16994View attachment 16995

I just use the WiiM Ultra headphone output with a pair of Sennheiser on-ear headphones.

To me they sounds just as good as with a dedicated amp.

I think it will work really fine with the set you have. Just use the EQ, as said in other comments.

 

[Poultrygeist]

What do price have to do with it? The DAC chipset price is a minor part of any implementation. Typically below $15.
It is all about how it is utilized.

Edit: Just checked the ES9038Q2M used by both WiiM Ultra and the Topping DX3 pro+. I cost $8 online.

All audio is built to a price point. Even a couple of dollars saved can result in big profits when enough units are sold. It costs more than $8 in supported components to have good implementation and implementation is more important than chip set. On Audio Science Review the Ultra measures slightly below the $80 SMSL SU1. My WiiM Pro+ measures slightly below the Ultra but I would never use it without an external DAC. Sounds far better with an SU-9 or the upgraded ZD3.

 

[gazza1101]

There is a webpage autoeq.app that has a lot of eq profiles based on the Harman curve, I found this helpful and a good starting point, I also had a set of the Philips Fidelio X2HR nice headphones and they respond to eq well.

 

[Sake]

I just use the WiiM Ultra headphone output with a pair of Sennheiser on-ear headphones.

To me they sounds just as good as with a dedicated amp.

I think it will work really fine with the set you have. Just use the EQ, as said in other comments.

Think you are right hgo. More than once i read positive comments on the Ultra's native headphone output. All through, measurements according: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-ultra-streamer-preamp-review.57342/ looks not that impressive, but.. can really we hear the difference with a dedicated headphones amp? I doubt, at least speaking for myself.

Using my Philips headphones on the Ultra's native headphone output -OR- listening thru Pro Ject Head Box S2, does ( indeed ) not make much difference for my hearing.

I am a fool, but gradually begin to understand things now

 

[Sake]

Well, i bought the Fioo K7, i liked to please myself a bit its a nice device to see. All through there is not much difference in sound quality compared to the previous Pro-Ject Head Box S2, as far as i can hear.
Have a question to you, wich input is best to choose Wiim Ultra --> Fioo K7 ? A have connected line out, optical and usb. All sources work flawlessly.

If i choose the line out from the Ultra as input for the Fioo K7, i can choose the dac filter from the Ultra.

If i choose optical or USB, no dac filter from the Ultra will be available. Does this means that if i use line in, the dac from the Ultra does the job, and in case of optical or USB, the dac from the Fioo K7 does the job to my headphones?

Strange enough ( for me ) equalization does work on All inputs? .. does this mean that the Ultra's equalsation does function apart from the dac?

Confused‍
Sorry to be a Dumbo, but it would be great to understand things.
Besides, i understand that sound quality wise there should be not a notacible difference in sound quality between optical, usb , coax , they say.

Probably someone can provide a link to solve my questions? I dont think its making me a more happy listener, but .. i really like to understand things, its interesting , having a little fun from this hobby

 

[harkpabst]

If i choose optical or USB, no dac filter from the Ultra will be available. Does this means that if i use line in, the dac from the Ultra does the job, and in case of optical or USB, the dac from the Fioo K7 does the job to my headphones?

Exactly.

Strange enough ( for me ) equalization does work on All inputs? .. does this mean that the Ultra's equalsation does function apart from the dac?

And correct again. EQ is applied (in the digital domain, so prior feeding either the internal or external DAC) by the processor itself.

 

[Sake]

Last question?
The Wiim Ultra has been connected to the Fioo K7, listening with headphones. Its connected with USB, Line in, coax and optical cables as input sources.

Which source input one could be most preferred?
USB, Coax, Line or optical ?

Some opinions on fora suggest coax preferred over optical ( in my case Max support 96khz ) , or will USB preferred input preferred, something has to to with the native dac's 'clocking', i understood.

So much difference in opinions, probably there is no real through, other than my ears, all through they do not hear any difference, at least not that much , wich input they get.

Thanks for any, eh.. input