Implement USB-In for desktop PC, laptop & tablet (Windows, Mac & Linux)

[QuarryHunslet]

Yes I know these exist, but people are making a big deal about the fact they can now send digital audio out from their Ultra to a DAC directly over USB, asynchronously. This dongle converts the audio from USB to an optical connection, possibly adding jitter and clocking issues where there shouldn't have to be if we could just directly connect a USB cable. So even though I would find it hard to believe, wouldn't a direct USB connection sound better theoretically?

Who knows, this sounds great to me, and that's all that matters. I think that people get brainwashed, and read, and believe everything that they see online, without trying other options. This is an affordable option to try, and if people don't like it, then they can always buy something much more expensive, an convince themselves that it sounds better, and that it must be better because it cost so much more.

 

[pieterv1]

Amir seems to agree that there shouldn't be a difference. My untrained ears probably wouldn't be able to tell either.

Battle of S/PDIF vs USB: which is better?

I was recently asked about merits of S/PDIF versus USB for audio DACs. It has been said that S/PDIF was designed for audio whereas USB is a computer interface. And that makes USB noisier and less desirable interface. I think most of you know my opinion on this. But just in case, I believe...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Anyways, my optical input is already reserved for a CD player & a direct USB input would mean one less dongle.

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Amir seems to agree that there shouldn't be a difference. My untrained ears probably wouldn't be able to tell either.

Battle of S/PDIF vs USB: which is better?

I was recently asked about merits of S/PDIF versus USB for audio DACs. It has been said that S/PDIF was designed for audio whereas USB is a computer interface. And that makes USB noisier and less desirable interface. I think most of you know my opinion on this. But just in case, I believe...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Anyways, my optical input is already reserved for a CD player & a direct USB input would mean one less dongle.

I have brought back into use an optical 3-way switch box, and have my TV connected to one port, and this new device connected to another port, and I may use the last port for my CD Recorder.

 

[LucAce]

Most computer motherboards these days have an SPDIF out function

Maybe a third of the desktop motherboards available separately, a twenty-fifth of the barebones and complete systems and no notebooks/MacBooks.
Quick check in the price comparison.

The wiim has optical in, no need for usb at all.

Pretty bold wrong as a general statement.

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Maybe a third of the desktop motherboards available separately, a twenty-fifth of the barebones and complete systems and no notebooks/MacBooks.
Quick check in the price comparison.


Pretty bold wrong as a general statement.

But probably perfectly acceptable for most owners.

 

[LucAce]

But probably perfectly acceptable for most owners.

Sure. Otherwise they wouldn't have chosen a Wiim product.
But what about those who decided against WiiM because of that?

For my part, I would probably have had two WiiM amps instead of one by now.

 

[vdp]

It is a trend I see

Maybe it’s an age thing…

I want to deliver this message with the greatest amount of respect. Not the least to you @Burnside seeing how you help so many here.

But the difference in view point between "older gen audiophiles" and I'm now making an educated guess to sub-40y audience is big.

This is not about right and wrong but about expectations in regards to use cases and user experience mostly.

Getting some of these topics killed/fought against because that's not a use case for the older gen is not what will make HiFi survive/blossom. There are many reasons why I don't see old school hifi stacks in any of the living rooms (let alone dedicated listening rooms) I'm walking into of people my age.

For me no. But for most people of younger generation music listening is indeed a pc activity.

And yes, pretty sure some sound quality is given up. If not your use case then don't use it.

 

[slartibartfast]

But probably perfectly acceptable for most owners.

How many more people would buy the amp if it did have a USB input though? Current owners bought it knowing it didn't have one so clearly don't need it, making your statement true but there are many people who do use computers as a music source using Foobar etc. I would happily buy an amp with just Squeezelite and nothing else but nobody else would

 

[jed1]

I think an USB audio interface / DAC with OTG input is a straightforward solution. Nowadays, I can find these devices that support PC, MAC, Linux, Android, iPad, iPhone via USB-C cable. As long as you can run streaming service of your choice, it is the simplest solution - taking a minimum space on your desk if you intend for desktop system. Majority of these devices have built-in headphone amps so it further simplify if you like quality of built-in headphone amp. Another benefits are they are generally compatible with or specifically designed for studio monitors / subwoofers.

 

[QuarryHunslet]

How many more people would buy the amp if it did have a USB input though? Current owners bought it knowing it didn't have one so clearly don't need it, making your statement true but there are many people who do use computers as a music source using Foobar etc. I would happily buy an amp with just Squeezelite and nothing else but nobody else would

Who knows, but you could use the same reasoning about any other feature “missing” from the Amp, such as balanced outputs, etc. At the end of the day, I expect that it all comes down to costing, and if all of these features were included, how much more would it cost, and would the target audience be prepared to pay for these features that many of them wouldn’t even know what to do with them.

 

[LucAce]

So basically you just want to not agree.

 

[slartibartfast]

Who knows, but you could use the same reasoning about any other feature “missing” from the Amp, such as balanced outputs, etc. At the end of the day, I expect that it all comes down to costing, and if all of these features were included, how much more would it cost, and would the target audience be prepared to pay for these features that many of them wouldn’t even know what to do with them.

Since you mention missing features it should probably have a phono input as well

 

[Smartplug]

This may sound to be good but given how many user will be using it it’s on minority side.

 

[QuarryHunslet]

So basically you just want to not agree.

Correct.

 

[Smartplug]

We will see what @RyanWithWiim will say. He will probably say when wiim run out of project it may be considered for future release.

 

[Mr Ee]

If it's 'cos someone wants to use a pc app to control playback then I can see why some want usb audio connectivity.
I doubt it'll happen though.
Otherwise maybe just run a mediaserver on the pc and stream to the wiim. Many pc apps can do that over upnp anyway, can't they?
i.e. I'm genuinely asking if usb input is necessary to use pc apps for music?

 

[SoFluffy]

I purposely have my hifi setup opposite of my PC in my home office and don't want them touching each other in any way. Maybe it's because I have so many conference calls and having multiple audio interfaces starts getting confusing, along with ASIO drivers and all the other headaches getting the audio bit perfect, bypassing the OS's audio control panel and processing, blah blah blah.

I honestly wish it had a USB-in though so I could USB-out from my Teac W-1200 cassette deck to my Wiim. Although, I have no idea if the AD converter is better in the Teac or the Wiim, so perhaps the desire isn't even justified.

 

[Deleted member 404]

Do I want the data to be processed by the inferior onboard sound or by the high-quality DAC with asychronous transmission via USB?

The reason why I have a fanless or noiseless HTPC in my living room is also the fact that I can, for example, record and immortalize radio broadcasts, live TV performances etc. (WASAPI recording, digital). Record while I listen. Watching and listening to videos, YouTube etc. I also have Musicbee and foobar installed and can switch the thing on at any time, regardless of any network conventions, and access my entire music library, which is already stored there purely as a backup to the NAS. There is no question of whether I can somehow display my play screen on the TV, it just works. After installing a remote server, I can also operate Musicbee and foobar via smartphone/tablet.

I currently have an SMSL DAC with ES9038Q2M to which the WiiM-Pro is connected via coax, the TV via optical and the HTPC via USB. The DAC does not offer any more inputs. And I wouldn't want to work with any crossovers and additional switches here...

Sometimes listening to music goes beyond pure streaming, but I wouldn't want to do without the WiiM (multi-room at parties/visits, ease of use, etc.).
I was happy when the Ultra was announced and that I could reduce my equipment and do without the DAC (the less, the better) but the lack of USB input disappointed me a little (reason, see first sentence). I'm not a big Bluetooth user either, but I find it questionable to rely on SBC for a device that calls itself Ultra. Every Android system from Ver. 8 offers LDAC. And if the visitor wants to quickly twitch his smartphone to play a song, a reasonable Bluetooth codec would have been desirable.

Don't get me wrong, ALL WiiM devices are wonderful devices and I love using them. WiiM has shaken up the market and also offers very good software. But I think the comments from the opening thread by MNMLSM are nice hints for future devices to give WiiM the status of the "egg-laying wool-milk sow"

 

[tomcrane]

Out of interest, I started on Richer Sounds web site and went up through the amps with digital inputs from the Wiim Amp Pro to the £1100 mark (I got bored...)

Those amps with ** prefix do what the OP wants - i.e., can act as a sound card for a computer/phone/tablet/etc with an asynchronous USB interface (as opposed to just reading files from attached USB storage).

Yamaha AS301 - opt, coax
Marantz PM6007 - opt, coax
Cambridge Audio AXR100 - opt, coax
Yamaha AS501 - opt, coax
Pro-Ject MaiA S3 - opt, coax
** Mission 778X - *USB-B*, opt, coax
Denon PMA-900HNE - USB-A, opt, coax
Yamaha R-N600A - opt, coax
Audiolab 6000A - opt, coax
** Emotiva BasX TA1 - *USB-B*, opt, coax
Denon DRA-900H - HDMI, opt, coax
** Cambridge Audio CXA61 - *USB-B*, opt, coax
Denon Home Amp - HDMI, USB-A opt, coax
** Quad Vena II - *USB-B*, opt, coax
** Leak Stereo 130 - *USB-B*, opt, coax
Arcam A5 - opt, coax
Yamaha AS701 - opt, coax
** Teac AI-303 - HDMI, *USB-C*, opt, coax
Marantz Stereo 70s - HDMI, USB-A opt, coax
SVS Prime Wireless SoundBase - HDMI, opt
** Emotiva XDA-3 - HDMI, *USB-B*, opt, coax
** Emotiva BasX PT2 - *USB-B*, opt, coax
Marantz PM7000N - USB-A opt, coax
Marantz Model M1 - HDMI, USB-A opt, coax
** PS Audio Sprout 100 - *USB-B*, opt
Roksan Attessa - opt, coax
** Cambridge Audio CXA81 - *USB-B*, opt, coax
** Yamaha R-N800A - *USB-B*, opt, coax
** Leak Stereo 230 - *USB-B*, opt, coax
Arcam A15 - opt, coax
** Audiolab 7000A - HDMI, *USB-B*, opt, coax
** Musical Fidelity M3si - *USB-B*
** Emotiva BasX TA2 - *USB-B*, opt, coax

so, 15/33 or nearly half, and becoming more common towards the top end of the price range.

I would use a USB input of this type, directly attaching a PC acting as a media server.

 

[MNMLSM]

Out of interest, I started on Richer Sounds web site and went up through the amps with digital inputs from the Wiim Amp Pro to the £1100 mark (I got bored...)

Really interesting, thanks for your effort!

And as I already wrote, it's highly likely that there will be an upgrade of the WiiM Amp with a display. For user cases like described in this thread, there will be no possibility to transfer the album cover file to the display (Toslink or Coaxial ) if you play music via a music program like foobar2000.
In this case USB would be the solution again.