Implement USB-In for desktop PC, laptop & tablet (Windows, Mac & Linux)

[slartibartfast]

Really interesting, thanks for your effort!

And as I already wrote, it's highly likely that there will be an upgrade of the WiiM Amp with a display. For user cases like described in this thread, there will be no possibility to transfer the album cover file to the display (Toslink or Coaxial ) if you play music via a music program like foobar2000.
In this case USB would be the solution again.

There is a way but it means disconnecting the drive from the WiiM and connecting to a PC. Not ideal but possible.

 

[jfbuk]

there will be no possibility to transfer the album cover file to the display (Toslink or Coaxial ) if you play music via a music program like foobar2000.
In this case USB would be the solution again.

I am intrigued by this album art issue.
Are you saying you want to be able output audio output via USB from your computer and at the same time transfer an album art image over USB for display on the receiving device as your 'playing now' screen?
Do you know of software and devices that can manage this dynamically ?

 

[cooky560]

Maybe a third of the desktop motherboards available separately, a twenty-fifth of the barebones and complete systems and no notebooks/MacBooks.
Quick check in the price comparison.


Pretty bold wrong as a general statement.

I build a lot of computers, as it's one of my hobbies, since around 2010 I have never owned a motherboard (Or build a computer for another with such a motherboard) that doesn't have an optical output. Even some pretty low end motherboards have optical outputs.

For macs, many macs combine the 3.5mm adaptor with an optical one.

With laptops it's less common I'll grant you that.

 

[pieterv1]

For user cases like described in this thread, there will be no possibility to transfer the album cover file to the display (Toslink or Coaxial ) if you play music via a music program like foobar2000.
In this case USB would be the solution again.

That's a bit of a stretch... How would the use of USB audio instead of optical enable cover art to show up on the screen?

 

[MNMLSM]

I am intrigued by this album art issue.
Are you saying you want to be able output audio output via USB from your computer and at the same time transfer an album art image over USB for display on the receiving device as your 'playing now' screen?
Do you know of software and devices that can manage this dynamically ?

Well, it should be pretty easy. The fact that the WiiM Ultra doesn't have USB In for Windows and I don't own the Ultra, makes it hard to proof my point. See below.

That's a bit of a stretch... How would the use of USB audio instead of optical enable cover art to show up on the screen?

I don't think it's a tiny bit of a stretch, let's assume the WiiM Ultra would get USB In for Windows.
With Coaxial and Toslink you send an audio signal exclusively.
With USB you can send the "whole" file, including meta tags and embedded covers. There actually 2 ways with USB that are pretty easy and common methods to get album covers straight from your music library:

1. Embedded cover saved in the audio file, that's a screenshot of a file that I tagged via foobar2000:



2. The WiiM device searches in your album folder for a cover.jpg:



PS: That should already be the method which the WiiM Ultra uses if you connect a storage medium like an SSD via USB. The display gets the album cover straight from the audio file or the folder jpg/png.

 

[pieterv1]

Yes of course the WiiM devices can already read those tags from media storage directly connected over USB, but we're talking about an audio bitstream over USB where the WiiM device's internal DAC would just act as a class-compliant audio interface.

With USB audio filenames, tags or album art are not passed on in the way you describe. A DAC will only display the bitrate, samplerate and maybe the codec used.

Metadata will be read and displayed only by the playback device like a phone or computer actually accessing the media files.

 

[d6jg]

I still work at home and in front of a PC all day and although said PC is connected via a USB Sound Card to an amp on my desk I only use this connection for audio for Teams etc
But I listen to music all day using either a WiiM Mini or a Pi plus DAC HAT into the same amp with a pair of Wharfedale Midus Cubes and an under desk Wharfedale sub woofer.
My point. It’s not as uncommon as some think but you don’t necessarily need to use the PC as the source.

 

[Burnside]

I can safely say I’ve seldom if ever sat in front of a pc or laptop to listen to music and would generally speaking find a PC a potentially noisy source of half decent audio. Maybe it’s an age thing…

I fully expect WiiM to extend the amp range as you describe in terms of power and a screen, but I believe they may need new hardware to support USB in as I understand the USB interface in current models can’t be made to support audio in.

@Sylvain - what was it in my comment that angered you? I thought it a pretty anodyne statement of what I do and what WiiM might do. Hardly anything to irritate anyone I would have thought…

 

[jfbuk]

With USB you can send the "whole" file, including meta tags and embedded covers. There actually 2 ways with USB that are pretty easy and common methods to get album covers straight from your music library:

Sending the whole file is not the same as sending a digital audio stream.
Please elucidate on the two ways and why you believe they are common ?

 

[Burnside]

Yes of course the WiiM devices can already read those tags from media storage directly connected over USB, but we're talking about an audio bitstream over USB where the WiiM device's internal DAC would just act as a class-compliant audio interface.

With USB audio filenames, tags or album art are not passed on in the way you describe. A DAC will only display the bitrate, samplerate and maybe the codec used.

Metadata will be read and displayed only by the playback device like a phone or computer actually accessing the media files.

Totally agree. USB audio in is analogous to coax or optical in, and doesn’t transfer metadata, while support for USB media will. In order to achieve the metadata transfer over USB @MNMLSM describes, the WiiM device would need to implement some file transfer mode akin to you attaching your android phone to a PC. I see little point in that given you can already use the desktop WiiM Home app to play your media files wirelessly to your WiiM so there’s no need for any additional development.

 

[pieterv1]

@MNMLSM I love that Sampha album though!

 

[MNMLSM]

Sorry guys, have been busy, late reply!

A tagged audio file doesn't send the cover automatically, but an audio file can contain embedded images and more information. A compatible device can access album covers and meta tags.

And so I stick to my point, a coaxial or toslink connection doesn't have the possibility to get an album cover from a file or a path while USB can achieve it pretty easy.
Just provide a WiiM.exe for Windows and provide access via USB or Wi-Fi, I admit that was a stretch.

@pieterv1 lovely album and the album cover is also great!

 

[d6jg]

Sorry guys, have been busy, late reply!

A tagged audio file doesn't send the cover automatically, but an audio file can contain embedded images and more information. A compatible device can access album covers and meta tags.

And so I stick to my point, a coaxial or toslink connection doesn't have the possibility to get an album cover from a file or a path while USB can achieve it pretty easy.
Just provide a WiiM.exe for Windows and provide access via USB or Wi-Fi, I admit that was a stretch.

@pieterv1 lovely album and the album cover is also great!

No it can’t.
The PC audio out over USB is PCM just like Optical or Coax. It contains no metadata.
You are confusing the capability of audio over USB with File Sharing over USB (a USB stick for example.)

 

[Burnside]

No it can’t.
The PC audio out over USB is PCM just like Optical or Coax. It contains no metadata.
You are confusing the capability of audio over USB with File Sharing over USB (a USB stick for example.)

Agreed. I fear the OP isn’t getting the point that many of us have made…

 

[MNMLSM]

Well, this time I believe that both of you are not able to read correctly.
I quote myself:

A tagged audio file doesn't send the cover automatically, but an audio file can contain embedded images and more information. A compatible device can access album covers and meta tags.

And so I stick to my point, a coaxial or toslink connection doesn't have the possibility to get an album cover from a file or a path while USB can achieve it pretty easy.
Just provide a WiiM.exe for Windows and provide access via USB or Wi-Fi, I admit that was a stretch.

I didn't state that a cover file is sent via audio. Or are both of you claiming that a FLAC or mp3 file can't contain a .jpg or .png?

 

[Burnside]

Well, this time I believe that both of you are not able to read correctly.
I quote myself:


I didn't state that a cover file is sent via audio. Or are both of you claiming that a FLAC or mp3 file can't contain a .jpg or .png?

Again, you’re misreading what’s been said, and @d6jg and myself are long enough in the tooth to know that audio files can include tags and embedded artwork. @d6jg stated it clearly enough in comment #53 - a USB audio stream from your PC soundcard, like coax and optical, doesn’t carry metadata. You are confusing USB audio with file sharing.

Edit: if you have music files on your PC, phone or tablet that you want to play on your WiiM device, there already are several means of doing that wirelessly without having to have your device cabled, usb or otherwise, to your WiiM device. You can set up Samba sharing to your PC and use the mobile WiiM app to browse your music folders and play tracks. Or you can set up Windows Media Sharing or an UPNP server like Minimserver or AssetUPnp and do similar. Or use the existing beta desktop WiiM app or mobile app and play to your WiiM device. All these methods support metadata such as tags and cover art.
I see no point in WiiM wasting time developing a cabled usb file sharing solution when there are already several means of playing PC or mobile/tablet music files wirelessly to a WiiM device. What would it achieve that the aforementioned wireless solutions don’t achieve?

 

[Smartplug]

Again, you’re misreading what’s been said, and @d6jg and myself are long enough in the tooth to know that audio files can include tags and embedded artwork. @d6jg stated it clearly enough in comment #53 - a USB audio stream from your PC soundcard, like coax and optical, doesn’t carry metadata. You are confusing USB audio with file sharing.

There’s many of them are like that can’t comprehend. They are rookie!

 

[pieterv1]

Well, this time I believe that both of you are not able to read correctly.
I quote myself:


I didn't state that a cover file is sent via audio. Or are both of you claiming that a FLAC or mp3 file can't contain a .jpg or .png?

When you send a barebones audio stream to an external USB soundcard or DAC, tags, album art and album art are not transmitted, it's that simple.

I like the idea, but if you'd want the album art to show up on the WiiM Ultra when using it as a DAC over USB, WiiM would have to develop some sort of proprietary protocol to do this.