Mainstream audio is getting afraid
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Steve Woodhouse
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I'm not going to discuss this review specifically, but yes I feel mainstream audio is getting scared.
They've made their money from expensive items with huge profit margins. And yes, quite often needed to be expensive.
But more and more, it's possible to get great performance at astonishingly low prices. And low prices mean small profit margins, and that's not how the high end audio market is structured. And now, people are realising that, in some cases (not all), extra money doesn't buy you better performance. If even 25% of people who care about sound quality first realise that, then the high end market starts to shift towards being untenable.
But for many of these reviewers, it's not a question of them taking money. This is their job, their livelihood, and their relationship with the high end audio industry is symbiotic. To be fair, they have excellent presentation skills, and are entertaining to watch. But when people realise that a good delivery doesn't mean an accurate review of the sound quality you'll get, then they start to tune out, and these people's jobs are at risk. And that's the monetary incentive, not some bribe, or underhand payment.
Some high end audio being a rip off = the end to some of these reviewers. Fewer high end reviewers persuading us to unnecessarily part with cash = an end to some high end audio. Vicious circle.
They've made their money from expensive items with huge profit margins. And yes, quite often needed to be expensive.
But more and more, it's possible to get great performance at astonishingly low prices. And low prices mean small profit margins, and that's not how the high end audio market is structured. And now, people are realising that, in some cases (not all), extra money doesn't buy you better performance. If even 25% of people who care about sound quality first realise that, then the high end market starts to shift towards being untenable.
But for many of these reviewers, it's not a question of them taking money. This is their job, their livelihood, and their relationship with the high end audio industry is symbiotic. To be fair, they have excellent presentation skills, and are entertaining to watch. But when people realise that a good delivery doesn't mean an accurate review of the sound quality you'll get, then they start to tune out, and these people's jobs are at risk. And that's the monetary incentive, not some bribe, or underhand payment.
Some high end audio being a rip off = the end to some of these reviewers. Fewer high end reviewers persuading us to unnecessarily part with cash = an end to some high end audio. Vicious circle.
Steve Woodhouse
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I quite agree. There something to be said for the feel of having something expensive, something that looks great, and is designed well. Something that feels 'the business', and like it's built like a tank and could last a lifetime. Something to which you can aspire.
And this isn't (yet another) objectivist v subjectivist debate. There'll be objectivists who'll covet the best-measuring equipment, even when those measurements go far past what is necessary. And again, that's fine, if that's what you're after. Is it any different to paying thousands for a rare stamp which has a small flaw?
Each to their own.
Pytaniedodcf
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If such advertising guy have to make this video, it only means that WiiM is a really great audio equipment !
wiimamp user
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wiimamp user
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They do.
A great Amp..
The sound of it amazes me every time again.
And think about what you're getting for such a great price..
The support,the app,.. praise for Wiim.
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Steve Woodhouse
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When I was in my 30s, the best TV you could get was a standard definition PAL 32" CRT, and a good one would cost you £1,000.
You can now buy a 4K 55" OLED which is better in every single department, for £1,000. Or a 32" HD LCD for £120.
Our eyesight as a human race hasn't improved. In many areas you can buy the same quality for a lot less, or a lot better quality for no more. I just can't understand people who refuse to acknowledge this, and scoff at people who know they can get great performance at low prices. And equally, we all have areas where we like the nicest, shiniest things, even if they're not 'objectively better'.
Vive la différence.
But let's just be open and honest about which it is that we're talking about, I suppose.
You can now buy a 4K 55" OLED which is better in every single department, for £1,000. Or a 32" HD LCD for £120.
Our eyesight as a human race hasn't improved. In many areas you can buy the same quality for a lot less, or a lot better quality for no more. I just can't understand people who refuse to acknowledge this, and scoff at people who know they can get great performance at low prices. And equally, we all have areas where we like the nicest, shiniest things, even if they're not 'objectively better'.
Vive la différence.
But let's just be open and honest about which it is that we're talking about, I suppose.
cooky560
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One thing that's slightly off topic, but has always baffled me is that people who spend big money on a nice TV, rarely stop to think about the sound, they might buy a soundbar to go with that TV, but just as many use the internal speakers that come with the TV.
Surely if you've bought a big TV because you love watching TV or movies at home, you would also invest in a good audio system, as movies are just as much about sound as they are images.
Surely if you've bought a big TV because you love watching TV or movies at home, you would also invest in a good audio system, as movies are just as much about sound as they are images.
I wouldn't go so far as to say any format, but I must admit I was recently incredibly impressed by just how good a well-recorded cassette sounds - especially type 4 tapes, but even high quality type 1 tapes, even without any Dolby Noise Reduction. Without comparing the cassette and the cd side-by-side, I could not actually tell which format I was listening to, and my hearing still goes up to about 16 kHz. Badly recorded cassettes definitely sound bad, though.
Back in the cassette's heyday, speakers were almost universally awful, so I wonder if our collective memories have partially misassigned the blame for the bad sound quality onto the format instead of the speakers. But seriously, I urge anyone with an interest in music, gadgets and fun (which is probably WiiM's target demographic), to hook up an old cassette deck to their hifi. I guarantee you'll have a blast.
I fully agree. I'm probably biased because I bought my very first three head cassette deck just recently (I went with Yamaha, not Wiim because of
The biggest problem with cassettes has always been wrong bias and EQ settings, mismatched tape sensitivity and - consequentially - bad Dolby NR recordings. And that's just referring to HiFi decks, of course.
However, if you have been lucky enough to experience what a two-track reel-to-reel tape recorder at 15 or even 30 ips could perform like, back in the day, then you know how limited even the best cassette decks have been, in comparison. Great fun for me, still and much better than I had remembered.
BowsAndArrows
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hmm.. i swear i'm not playin devil's advocate for no reason... 
but i do agree with their point that if anyone is shelling out cash for paid "reviews" on youtube/tik tok/insta, it's the Chi-Fi crowd... many of them have obviously developed a reputation over the years by building quality products, but they almost all initially started out this way (at least by giving out free products) because they are smaller, younger companies who are more savvy with digital marketing and don't have a distributor network to help them sell the products.
i'm not saying that the established Hi-Fi brands would never or are not doing this, i'm just saying that they don't really need to - partly because their target consumers don't really overlap with the digital-everything younger people with less money to spend and who shop online. and also because they have possibly outdated ideas about how to efficiently market to consumers in the digital age
i also actually do think it is a fair comparison because the price is comparable, and because the solutions (WiiM mini + onkyo AVR vs Wiim Amp - notice both options include a WiiM device
) would actually end up fitting in the same place in the customer's life. and tbh if i was making the choice i would actually think that overall even a wiim pro + the AVR would be the most cost-effective solution, with a possibility of adding multichannel in the future. 
i'm not in any way saying the wiim amp is not good value for the people it's appropriate for. but as they say in the comments - it's not the right choice for everyone and the value in their video is showing people an alternative that may suit their situation/needs better that they wouldn't have considered unless they went to their local Hi-Fi Dealer...
but i do agree with their point that if anyone is shelling out cash for paid "reviews" on youtube/tik tok/insta, it's the Chi-Fi crowd... many of them have obviously developed a reputation over the years by building quality products, but they almost all initially started out this way (at least by giving out free products) because they are smaller, younger companies who are more savvy with digital marketing and don't have a distributor network to help them sell the products.
i'm not saying that the established Hi-Fi brands would never or are not doing this, i'm just saying that they don't really need to - partly because their target consumers don't really overlap with the digital-everything younger people with less money to spend and who shop online. and also because they have possibly outdated ideas about how to efficiently market to consumers in the digital age
i also actually do think it is a fair comparison because the price is comparable, and because the solutions (WiiM mini + onkyo AVR vs Wiim Amp - notice both options include a WiiM device
) would actually end up fitting in the same place in the customer's life. and tbh if i was making the choice i would actually think that overall even a wiim pro + the AVR would be the most cost-effective solution, with a possibility of adding multichannel in the future. i'm not in any way saying the wiim amp is not good value for the people it's appropriate for. but as they say in the comments - it's not the right choice for everyone and the value in their video is showing people an alternative that may suit their situation/needs better that they wouldn't have considered unless they went to their local Hi-Fi Dealer...
BowsAndArrows
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i'm loving this discussion about tapes... which yamaha did you get? i am thinking about getting one of those braun atelier c1s to hook up to my WiiM pro...
Shishkebaben
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I agree so much with you on this.
I was in the same situation, simply because I was unaware of audio products. Many like me do not have experience with good audio and what to buy. But once you go into the rabbit hole you are in it for life, at least for me.
The second big purchase i made after my top end TV was audio equipment, which now triumphs the TVs price by several times.
We need to show those near us ehat they are missing.
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I couldn't afford a Nakamichi Dragon back in the day, so I settled for the still excellent Nakamichi CR-3E, and optional extra RM-5 wired remote control unit. I have it connected to my WiiM Amp, together with another oldie from the past, a Pioneer PDR-609 compact disc recorder.
cooky560
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I recently had the experience of hearing a "type 4" tape (not mine, or in my home, sadly) and it was surprising what it sounded like. I remembered tapes as the poor cousin to other formats, indeed when I used to go shopping for music in actual brick and mortar record stores, the tapes were always 1/2 the price or less compared with the vinyl, and CDs.
However having heard a properly biased type 4 tape, it's impressive how good the technology got as it matured, and is leagues away from the type 1s that too many records were distributed on.
However having heard a properly biased type 4 tape, it's impressive how good the technology got as it matured, and is leagues away from the type 1s that too many records were distributed on.
dimangiful
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I believe there is eventually only room for one option, not both. There will always be the niche markets with low volumes, high prices. But that niche will be so small, you will not anymore have electronic (or hi-fi) stores even in all larger cities to supply. That will make it even more niche and smaller manufacturers will disappear with their brand names reused for the masses.hmm.. i swear i'm not playin devil's advocate for no reason...
but i do agree with their point that if anyone is shelling out cash for paid "reviews" on youtube/tik tok/insta, it's the Chi-Fi crowd... many of them have obviously developed a reputation over the years by building quality products, but they almost all initially started out this way (at least by giving out free products) because they are smaller, younger companies who are more savvy with digital marketing and don't have a distributor network to help them sell the products.
i'm not saying that the established Hi-Fi brands would never or are not doing this, i'm just saying that they don't really need to - partly because their target consumers don't really overlap with the digital-everything younger people with less money to spend and who shop online. and also because they have possibly outdated ideas about how to efficiently market to consumers in the digital age
i also actually do think it is a fair comparison because the price is comparable, and because the solutions (WiiM mini + onkyo AVR vs Wiim Amp - notice both options include a WiiM device
i'm not in any way saying the wiim amp is not good value for the people it's appropriate for. but as they say in the comments - it's not the right choice for everyone and the value in their video is showing people an alternative that may suit their situation/needs better that they wouldn't have considered unless they went to their local Hi-Fi Dealer...
Also, i don’t think the older generations will make a business. If/when they need to renew the hardware, they will follow the advice from younger generations. They too, appreciate usability, perhaps even more so than many sound quality enthustiastic young people. A set-up consisting of equipment that has to be manually operated with five separate infernally designed remotes is not an option for the average person in 2024.
cooky560
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Sadly I think that hi-fi is a dying hobby.
People don't listen to music in the same way as they used to.
I'm an old man and I still like to sit in a comfy chair and listen to a couple of hours a music each day, but many people only really seem to have music as background while doing other things.
As a result of this change, many people are less willing to spend money and space in their rooms on good quality hifi, when a cheap pair of earbuds plugged in to a phone, or using their soundbar as a Bluetooth receiver will do.
The rarer it is that people buy hifi, the more pricey it will become as fewer sales have to make the same bank to the company
People don't listen to music in the same way as they used to.
I'm an old man and I still like to sit in a comfy chair and listen to a couple of hours a music each day, but many people only really seem to have music as background while doing other things.
As a result of this change, many people are less willing to spend money and space in their rooms on good quality hifi, when a cheap pair of earbuds plugged in to a phone, or using their soundbar as a Bluetooth receiver will do.
The rarer it is that people buy hifi, the more pricey it will become as fewer sales have to make the same bank to the company
I don't see this happening right now, at least not here in Germany.
Yes, there has been a meaningful market consolidation at least 10 to 20 years ago and it's probably still going on, but at a much lower rate now. Small specialist shops are getting a bit rare, but really big shops selling high-end stuff only have taken over. Specialist manufacturers serving an advanced market in the past have shifted their product range even more upmarket (with prices for top-of-the-line products skyrocketing).
The death of high fidelity has been announced many times and by now nobody can impress their friends with better HiFi gear. But there's still a lot of life in the absolute top class market and a new generation of entry level devices.
dimangiful
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It can be, and stuff like the vinyls brought back is certainly interesting. I think it's not a question if it is a niche, but rather how large a niche. Back in the day the large electronic chains had dedicated departments for AVRs. Nowadays they don't have any, and no proper sections for speakers, subwoofers, cables etc. All they sell is bluetooth speakers and soundbars. You need to find a specialised Hi-Fi dealer, which at least where I live are still alive, but becoming less every year. I have no numbers if the market size is changing, but it is suffering the same as every brick-and-mortar, moving to the web. In the web the low-cost options have certain edge over high-end.
In the old days everyone invested in Hi-Fi setup with dedicated AVRs. Today most have got rid of them. In my circle of friends, only a few have AVR today. Most have soundbars and BT Wi-Fi mono speakers and headphones.
I don't think this is true. Most people have only ever listened to music on cheap radios with very cheap speakers and found no issue with it. There are now more options than ever to listen to music, and in fact the average quality of cheap music formats, Bluetooth speakers, earbuds, headphones, etc, has only gone up in recent years. Even YouTube's terrible audio compression has improved significantly. This is also the cheapest it's ever been to get a high quality music setup, and where there are always newcomers to high quality audio, there isn't anyone who, after enjoying said high quality for a number of years, says "screw this, I want to hear my music from a cheap tinny mono speaker".
