Mainstream audio is getting afraid

[cooky560]

I don't think this is true. Most people have only ever listened to music on cheap radios with very cheap speakers and found no issue with it. There are now more options than ever to listen to music, and in fact the average quality of cheap music formats, Bluetooth speakers, earbuds, headphones, etc, has only gone up in recent years. Even YouTube's terrible audio compression has improved significantly. This is also the cheapest it's ever been to get a high quality music setup, and where there are always newcomers to high quality audio, there isn't anyone who, after enjoying said high quality for a number of years, says "screw this, I want to hear my music from a cheap tinny mono speaker".

I can of course only speak from my own bubble. However I remember when every house I went to had a half decent hifi in the living room, with either bookshelves or floorstanders, that sounded decent.

Today, those same houses contain either a soundbar connected to the TV and no hifi, or one of these mini systems.

 

[castalla]

And many just use a smartphone.... to listen to 99% rubbish noise

 

[dimangiful]

Eventually in Germany we live in a land of bliss. But I do not think its different at least in (Western) Europe, the UK, the US and Japan to name only a handful.
Living at the edge of Rhine-Main Metropole region in a small town below 100.000 inhabitants we have one very good hifi shop and at least ten, including five only "high end" shops, for years and no sign of weakness within 100 km driving distance.
The most relevant issue for the traditional shops in my opinion is the laziness and "the try and send easily back" attitude of people educated by Amazon and consorts. A few shops did not survive this or did not react appropriate but thats how markets regulate themselves in systems like ours.

Never lived in Germany, visited many times. The impression I have is that it's quite conservative. Cash still used in a lot of places, small hardware stores exists even in downtown Munich. It's what we had in the 80s/90s in Northern Europe. The change will eventually come

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I think a lot of houses in the ‘90s had mini systems - you know, the ones that came with two small bookshelf speakers, and then all the electrics in a box in the middle of around the same size.

Those appear to have been swapped for smart speakers, Sonos, etc.

Meanwhile, and parallel to that, soundbars. Many people had their hi-fi set up with speakers either side of the TV.

Just my take on it.

 

[wiimamp user]

I have _in my youth_ known lots of people with very expensive hifi gear. So i know how good and hifi installation can sound.
My fascination began there... i never forget i heard some quite expensive B&W speakers i was blown away how the sounded. Or how excellent a good amp can sound...

Now i think the youth will not be interested any more in physical media i think thats a problem. Also a problem is ( in my opinion) manufacturers are trying to go with the modern times( streaming) but never really did implented it in a good way.
But a company like WIIM offers modern hifi acquipment that actually works for a superb price. A very good app and hardware that delivers exceptional good sound and has also the possibility to use in for watching tv netflix( HDMI arc). You can make any amp modern if you buy an mini or a wiim pro or pro plus. The hardware is very important they knew this but the software is no less important,including support giving to you,re costumers ..that they have also taken very seriously. And they stand for what they are making.

I think in this manner you can convince young and people who are not so familiar with hifi products to invest in such a device in stead of lets say a bleutooth speaker or a soundbar. Hifi still alive...

 

[Malkie]

Up until recently, I owned a 22k system that sounded great. I decided to downsize after moving to a new condo and sold everything.
I replaced it with high end ADAM Audio monitors, a quality preamp and DAC along with WiiM Pro.
To be honest....I much prefer the sound I have now! It's great.
Music is harder to come by now unless you're into pop etc ...music to simply listen to is getting rare in my opinion. I find myself looking for new and interesting music but it's pretty difficult.
All this to say....I paid too much before and like I said....those professional monitors are fantastic.

 

[wiimamp user]

Good gear is very important that's what I know for sure when enjoying music.
It really is.... No doubt about it.
Wiim gives you very good quality for a unbelievable price. On the amp even sub and hdmi support. On a app that is very mature and very well developed.
Think about the support they are giving their customers.
Praise and respect to Wiim...hifi still alive..

I even dont listen to my headphones anymore.Wiim convincing me a hifi set van easily be on that level or even better( my opinion).
Music listening is exciting with good gear can bring emotion..

 

[cooky560]

Listening with speakers is always nicer I find than headphones, the sense of space really helps with listening to music.

In other news I am testing another audio myth today, I have got hold of some better speaker cable, and I am keen to see what difference it makes!

 

[wiimamp user]

I never had expected it could give me even more pleasure when listening to a good headphone.
But the amp definitely gives me more pleasure..
I don't use the headphones anymore I prefer the amp now

Listening now to calexico again. I feel excitement,emotion..it's wonderful.
The natural sounding of the instruments, instrument separation, details you're hearing.. excellent. Brings joy listening to music.

Edit to be honest the wiim amps sounds better than any headphones I tried.
Yes with good cables and dac..the Amp sounds even better.

 

[MKUltra]

Music is harder to come by now unless you're into pop etc ...music to simply listen to is getting rare in my opinion. I find myself looking for new and interesting music but it's pretty difficult.

Here's a band that became quite popular as of a couple of years ago, but they're still unknown to many people.

Try to get lost in the sound. It's something very, very different.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Up until recently, I owned a 22k system that sounded great. I decided to downsize after moving to a new condo and sold everything.
I replaced it with high end ADAM Audio monitors, a quality preamp and DAC along with WiiM Pro.
To be honest....I much prefer the sound I have now! It's great.
Music is harder to come by now unless you're into pop etc ...music to simply listen to is getting rare in my opinion. I find myself looking for new and interesting music but it's pretty difficult.
All this to say....I paid too much before and like I said....those professional monitors are fantastic.

hmm.. you can't be serious about the lack of quality music out there?? i find there's TOO much and only so much i can explore with the limited time i set aside for music enjoyment...
the barriers to entry in the industry have dramatically dropped in the last few decades with people now able to produce exceptionally recorded albums from home studios! the industry has consolidated (as every other one has) into an oligopoly and they are trying their best to use the algos etc to direct us consumers to their offerings. but if you skip past that BS and dive into discovery yourself or look at human curated playlists like Qobuz offers, then you get the sense of just how much quality is out there

also, i feel like the (ultra) high end of Hi-Fi has never been healthier - just look at the attendances at the recent Bristol Hi-Fi show and i'm sure the next High End Munich show coming soon too! i do agree that there has been (disappointing) a shift in most regular people's homes towards sound bars and mono bluetooth "smart" speakers etc. instead of a classic separates rig. but again, this is where videos like this one are actually valuable - reminding people what you can get for $250 if you look past the insta/google/youtube ads...

btw as a side note, i expect the prices of beauties like @Fender 's dragon are gonna way beyond initial purchase price (controlled for inflation). just look at the high end walkman market

 

[cooky560]

Listening with speakers is always nicer I find than headphones, the sense of space really helps with listening to music.

In other news I am testing another audio myth today, I have got hold of some better speaker cable, and I am keen to see what difference it makes!

Well consider me converted! The new cables made a difference!

 

[cooky560]

Up until recently, I owned a 22k system that sounded great. I decided to downsize after moving to a new condo and sold everything.
I replaced it with high end ADAM Audio monitors, a quality preamp and DAC along with WiiM Pro.
To be honest....I much prefer the sound I have now! It's great.
Music is harder to come by now unless you're into pop etc ...music to simply listen to is getting rare in my opinion. I find myself looking for new and interesting music but it's pretty difficult.
All this to say....I paid too much before and like I said....those professional monitors are fantastic.

There is a point where quality is already reached, and you buy based on what you like having in your listening room, and I find that anything above $2000 per component does start to have diminishing returns.

Due to different pieces sounding different, different rooms sounding different, and different pieces sounding different in different rooms, when you reach a certain price, you are best just listening to the gear in your listening room, and if you like it, well it's the system for you.

That said if you can afford a $20,000 system, you should probably look into room treatment, as you'll able to make massive changes, and still order that $2000 system and have it sound better than imaginable before the acoustic treatment.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Well consider me converted! The new cables made a difference!

wait, what? are you just pulling out legs on this one??

please expand: which cables did you replace? what were the new ones? what did you notice?

 

[cooky560]

I went from some amazon basic cables (no idea what they were) to those cables brantome mentioned on another thread, the difference was small, but it was certainly there!

To avoid the flowery words most the mags use, everything just felt more pronounced, the bass was bassier, the treble more clear. But the difference wasn't night and day.

I would certainly recommend cables in the sort of $40 range over the amazon basic ones. But I still don't believe the $2000 cables have any difference.

 

[Brantome]

I went from some amazon basic cables (no idea what they were) to those cables brantome mentioned on another thread, the difference was small, but it was certainly there!

To avoid the flowery words most the mags use, everything just felt more pronounced, the bass was bassier, the treble more clear. But the difference wasn't night and day.

I would certainly recommend cables in the sort of $40 range over the amazon basic ones. But I still don't believe the $2000 cables have any difference.

Which ones I mentioned? Don’t recall that. Only thing I recall having mentioned would be the chord coax cable I use which I got as a freeby when I updated my amp.

 

[cooky560]

Which ones I mentioned? Don’t recall that. Only thing I recall having mentioned would be the chord coax cable I use which I got as a freeby when I updated my amp.

Perhaps it wasn't you, but it was a thread on here. Anyway, going back through my amazon history it seems the main change is from CCA to OFC, this is probably why I can notice a change.

 

[harkpabst]

Anyway, going back through my amazon history it seems the main change is from CCA to OFC, this is probably why I can notice a change.

I'm very sure that this is one of the rare (?) occasions where subjectivists and objectivists come together in peace, harmony and universal love: CCA is crap.

 

[harkpabst]

There is a point where quality is already reached, and you buy based on what you like having in your listening room, and I find that anything above $2000 per component does start to have diminishing returns.

Due to different pieces sounding different, different rooms sounding different, and different pieces sounding different in different rooms, when you reach a certain price, you are best just listening to the gear in your listening room, and if you like it, well it's the system for you.

That said if you can afford a $20,000 system, you should probably look into room treatment, as you'll able to make massive changes, and still order that $2000 system and have it sound better than imaginable before the acoustic treatment.

If you ever get the chance to do so, make sure to listen to any speaker system made by Avantgarde Acoustic.

Home - Avantgarde Acoustic

For more than 30 years, Matthias Ruff and Holger Fromme have had a common dream: "The best loudspeakers in the world".

avantgarde-acoustic.de

Usually, whenever I go to HiFi shows of any kind, I come back home and feel reassured that my main system (far less then 20.000, bot more then 10.000 in total) sounds at least as good or usually clearly better than anything I just heard. Avantgarde Acoustic system are the one exception from this rule. Too many horn speakers are crap in the end, but not those. It's just one of may unique aspects of their products.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Perhaps it wasn't you, but it was a thread on here. Anyway, going back through my amazon history it seems the main change is from CCA to OFC, this is probably why I can notice a change.

thanks for sharing... yeh it's pretty clear that OFC copper lowers the overal impedance of cables (which can be easily measured). both cables will still measure the same on a freq response curve tho!!

interestingly alpha audio recently did a massive test of analog interconnects and they are measuring all kinds of crazy things that we wouldn't have thought of even a couple of years ago. there are some patterns starting to emerge in the data with regards to how the cables sound characteristics differ, but the results mostly agree with your impressions. they're gonna be doing speaker cables next - will be interesting to see what they find!