New construction with 9 zones - Is Wiim a good choice?

[RockstarATL]

Hello.
I hope if someone can help me to decide if WiiM or which WiiM is good choice for me. I have 9 zones in new construction. I will be using Spotify most of the time to listen to music. Is it a good idea to buy 9 WiiM devices for set up or should I go with one that has multi-zone amp? Is WiiM mini good enough for background music? Thank you in advance.
JC

 

[Wiimer]

Hello.
I hope if someone can help me to decide if WiiM or which WiiM is good choice for me. I have 9 zones in new construction. I will be using Spotify most of the time to listen to music. Is it a good idea to buy 9 WiiM devices for set up or should I go with one that has multi-zone amp? Is WiiM mini good enough for background music? Thank you in advance.
JC

I believe a better way to get a technical and accurate answer to your question would be to ask Linkplay directly.

I am currently running a multiroom with 6 WiiM devices and can play Spotify from all speakers with no problem. (This does not include the Mini, however.)

The Mini has lower CPU performance than the other WiiMs, so it may be safer to choose a Pro or higher model for multi-room playback.

As long as the same network is available in all rooms of your house without delay, I think 9 multi-rooms will work fine. However, I won't know until I actually try it. (I'd recommend an Ethernet connection if at all possible.)

Also, WiiM is beta testing low latency playback for multirooms. In my test yesterday it worked fine. But please note that again, Mini does not support low-latency playback.

Beta Test: Multi-Room Low Latency Mode for Line-In, Optical-In, Phono-In, TV, and Bluetooth Inputs

Hi WiiM Community, We are seeking beta testers for the new Multi-Room Low Latency Mode. This feature reduces audio delay for Line In, Optical In, Phono In, TV, and Bluetooth inputs, enhancing multi-room sync to provide a smoother and more synchronized listening experience. This feature will be...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[RockstarATL]

Thank you for your input.
I will be able to connect WiiM devices on the same network via CAT6 from basement utility room where I will keep all equipments. At this time, WiiM Pro is $150. I am wondering if I should get 9 WiiM Pro (total of $1,350) or an 8 channel amp plus 1 channel add-on for setup.

 

[RyanWithWiiM]

Hi! I might be biased, but here are some thoughts...

I think I lot of this really just comes down to what you're looking to be able to do in the different zones. Each WiiM device can operate as a separate zone within the WiiM Home app, they can be grouped together, controlled separately, all from the same app. However, if you're using Spotify you'll be using Spotify Connect, not the WiiM app and may be limited on the number of concurrent streams you can have playing.

With the WiiM app you could be playing different music in different zones, with easy control of the volume, and turning on and off areas. You'd also be able to use the features of WiiM OS such as Room Correction for each of the different sections.

If you're just using the 8 channel amp fed by a single WiiM device, the WiiM Home app would control what's playing, but you'd need to use the amp's control system to determine where to be playing audio. It'd be a little less convenient, but might not be enough of a drawback.

 

[Hazenhart]

Like RyanWithWiim said, it depends on what degree of independent control you want to have over each zone, and how you want to implement that control. You will need amplification for each zone, regardless. A few multi-channel amplifiers seems like the obvious choice (is that 9 stereo audio zones? Then you will need 18 channels of amplification). Every zone that you want independently controlled will need its own WiiM device, as the WiiM device will be how you select your audio source and control volume (in the most simple configuration). It can of course be far more complicated if you want/need it to be.

 

[jjue1979]

What is the cost difference between the WiiM Pro + the multi-channel amps that you thinking about for your 9 zones vs buying 9 WiiM Amps? I know that Sonos installs were typically Sonos Amps or Sonos Ports + multi-channel amps.

 

[RockstarATL]

The 9 zones consist of 2 zones in basement, 7 zones in 1st floor (master bed, master bath, closet, office, living room and kitchen) and 2 patios with each zone. All speaker wires are placed to a utility room in the basement. I will probably play music from Spotify in some of the zones at the same time, but probably not in all places. If anything I see myself playing separate music in the basement from the first floor or outside patio, but not play different music in all different zones. I received a quote from Crutchfield with OSD 8 zone amp ($1000) and 1 additional amp ($180) and 1 Sonos port ($449). Total will be about $1,600 vs. $1,350. Do I need to buy 9 WiiM amp to stack up instead of 2? Thank you.

 

[Hazenhart]

If you're using an 8 zone amp and another amp, you need exactly zero WiiM Amps. You could use WiiM Mini, Pro, Pro+, or Ultra. If you only wanted 2 independent playback zones, you would only need 2 of any of the above. What do you need the Sonos Port for?

 

[jeffme]

Here are 3 of my recent answers on r/sonos on reddit:

I think it really depends on your needs for standalone speakers or if you're going solely in wall and in ceiling.

If in-wall and in-ceiling, I think that Wiim is a much better option right now. Cheaper and has many performance & technical edges over Sonos, plus less app drama.

If you're going to have a blend of in-wall and standalone speakers, I think it's hard to beat. Sonos. The Five, Eras, and Move 2 are unmatched in the Wiim ecosystem right now.

Also, if you need a surround sound system based on Sonos, that may influence your decision a little bit, but I'm not sure if it's a material factor. I currently have a whole house system based on Wiim (14 rooms), and a TV surround setup based on Sonos.

followed by:

Ok, seeing as I was downvoted for some reason, I'll add some context about the Wiim / Sonos comparison using the Sonos Amp vs. WiiM Amp Pro to illustrate:

Sonos Amp / WiiM Amp Pro
$656 / +$299 (amazon, and Black Friday is coming)
+92db / 89db SINAD (higher is better)
+220w / 120w per channel @ 4ohms (higher can be better, but 120w is plenty for most rooms)
none / +10-band, per channel PEQ
Sonos architectural only / +any speakers room correction
24bit/48k / +32bit/192k max audio pathway (higher is better, but 24bit/48k is plenty for most cases)
no / +yes USB storage support
yes / yes Airplay 2
no / +yes Chromecast
no / +yes Bluetooth

So, not all of these features are important to everyone, but saving $350 per room with no cost in easy of use seems to be a pretty strong argument in favor of WiiM over Sonos for a purely in-wall / in-ceiling installation. You could easily use that $350 to cover quite a range of speakers or to get a big speaker upgrade in each room.

and this one on speakers:

If you're not hooked on TruePlay, it really depends on what price point you want to hit for your house. Sonance / Sonos Architectural is a fine way to go, but if that's not an issue, the sky's the limit - KEF (https://us.kef.com/collections/special-applications/applications_in-ceiling) up to things like Perlisten (https://www.perlistenaudio.com/view-all-products/architectural/) or James (https://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/categories/30). If sound quality is your goal, u/Adorable-Will-6074 is right on - 8" if you can. 3-way, if you can. On the 3-way front, we have quite a few in-wall & in-ceiling speakers and these beasts (https://www.bowerswilkins.com/en-us...eakers/reference-series/ccm7-3-s2/150227.html) do sound noticeably better than your typical 8-inch circular speakers. And... if audio quality is your goal, don't forget to consider options for architectural subwoofers (Sonance has a few) to round out low-end deficiencies of your ceiling speaker choices.

I recently moved from a purely Sonos-based setup (14 rooms) to a hybrid WiiM/multichannel amp + WiiM amp setup, and unless you have needs for high-end amplification, I think the pure WiiM Amp-based setup (or WiiM Amp Pro, if you don't need Airplay) is the way to go. I've learned the hard way on this one. Multichannel amps (I've used Rotel, AudioControl, Sonance, Lexicon, and Buckeye multichannel amps) all seem good, but there's always a little funkiness that goes along with them. Individual amps require more wiring and maybe a bit more rack space, but save a lot of other headaches. Most residential rooms won't require a lot of watts to enjoy.

The real question is budget. Think about how much you want to spend on speakers first, then amplification. The streamer cost is fixed and WiiM has set the benchmark in this area. A potential way to think about amplifier cost is cost per channel (or cost per 2 channels / per room). Right now, the WiiM Amp is $300 on Amazon. A WiiM Pro is $150. (You definitely want to use a wired setup, btw. Wires are your friend.) So, your cost per room for amplification is $150 per room ($300 - $150).

The Crutchfield OSD 8 zone amp is $125 per room - $1000 / 8 rooms. That's not bad, but you're pretty locked in to playing the same music everywhere. Ever have guests? Want to play at different volumes in different rooms? If want to add streamers (WiiM or Sonos Port) later, your per room cost for Sonos will be much more. Also - your quote only has 1 source in it - the Sonos Port, or the 1 additional amp cost is off - a Sonos Amp is $700, not $150.

So, if you look at the expansion for any future growth, it looks like this:

Base Sonos system - 2 sources + 18 channels/9 zones -> OSD amp ($1000) + Sonos Amp ($700) + Sonos Port ($450) = $2150
+ 1 more source - above ($2150) + Sonos Port ($450) = $2600

Base WiiM system - 2 sources + 18 channels/9 zones -> $1000 + WiiM Amp ($300) + WiiM Pro ($150) = $1450
+1 more source - above ($1450) + WiiM Pro ($150) = $1600

Bottom line is that you're going to have much more flexibility and lower cost with a WiiM-based system, assuming you're focused on in-wall / in-ceiling speakers.

My take? Wire up all nine zones with speakers, but no amps to start. Play around with 4 or 5 WiiM amps to see which areas you're listening to the most. E.g., no bathroom, no closet to start. Then, either double-up some of the speakers to either be in the same zone (e.g., group Main bedroom / closet / bath) and go from there.

 

[jjue1979]

@jeffme explained this better than I would have; go with what he says.

 

[jeffme]

Thanks for the comment, but I'm not sure I'd go that far, @jjue1979! I'm sure there are some factors and options that might be relevant to @RockstarATL's situations that I might not be aware of, plus there are just 100 ways to solve these audio problems we all face!

 

[RockstarATL]

@jeffme, thank you so much for your detailed feedback. One thing I did not understand is the WiiM set up cost.

Base WiiM system - 2 sources + 18 channels/9 zones -> $1000 + WiiM Amp ($300) + WiiM Pro ($150) = $1450
+1 more source - above ($1450) + WiiM Pro ($150) = $1600

What is the $1,000 for? Is that the 8 zone OSD amp? + 1 WiiM Amp ($300) + WiiM Pro ($150) = $1,450. If this is correct, are you connecting WiiM Amp and WiiM Pro to 8 zone OSD amp? In this case, I don't need to buy 9 WiiM Pro? I apologize that I am new to this and may not fully understand the whole setup. Thank you all who commented.

 

[RockstarATL]

I think I finally understood. Since WiiM Pro has no amplifier, this would connect to 8 zone OSD amplifier which can stream music from Spotify to 8 zones simultaneously. I can then use WiiM Amp to connect 1 pair of speakers in 1 zone to play separate music. Did I get that right? Thank you, all.

 

[RyanWithWiiM]

I think I finally understood. Since WiiM Pro has no amplifier, this would connect to 8 zone OSD amplifier which can stream music from Spotify to 8 zones simultaneously. I can then use WiiM Amp to connect 1 pair of speakers in 1 zone to play separate music. Did I get that right? Thank you, all.

You got it right! Basically the WiiM Mini, Pro, Pro Plus, and Ultra are all pre-amps, streamers to send audio streams into amplified speakers with differing internals and connections. The WiiM Amp and Amp Pro can power speakers themselves. From a "how they work in the app" stance, they're each separate rooms or zones. For each zone you want to be able to control separately, you'll want one WiiM device.

 

[jeffme]

I think I finally understood. Since WiiM Pro has no amplifier, this would connect to 8 zone OSD amplifier which can stream music from Spotify to 8 zones simultaneously. I can then use WiiM Amp to connect 1 pair of speakers in 1 zone to play separate music. Did I get that right? Thank you, all.

As @RyanWithWiim mentioned - you are right on with this comment. The one caveat (mentioned above, but repeated for emphasis) is that using the OSD amp in this way means you won’t be able to have any independent volume control per room through the app. There are other ways to get independent volume control (knobs in the rooms, some sort of remote control attenuators (different name for a volume control) per channel, but they’ll defeat the simplicity of a single controlling app like WiiM home.

That’s the one thing I’d add to Ryan’s response - you’ll need 1 WiiM device for each room you’ll want to be able to control source AND volume independently.

There is one cool element of the OSD amp that I forgot to mention, but that might be particularly relevant for your use case: it has 2 independent “bus”es that can combine speakers to use the same source. So, for example, say you wanted to group 3 of the 8 zones together - e.g. your bathroom, bedroom, and closet. You could use 1 WiiM streamer as input to that “bus” and then use the volume controls on the back of the amp to make the bathroom or the closet permanently quieter than the rest of the rooms. I’ve always found I want bathroom speakers to be l.o.u.d. to hear over the shower. Or, you could just adjust all of their volume together. Then, you could add a WiiM streamer for the second bus to connect to the living room and the kitchen or the 2 patios to the second bus. Then, add individual wiim streamers to whichever other rooms you’ll be adding.

So, here’s a different, lower cost, more experimental approach you might take:

OSD Amp
Zones 1, 2, and 3 - Bath, BR, Closet - 1 WiiM Pro
Zones 4, 5, 6 - Living room, Kitchen, and office - 1 WiiM Pro
Zone 7 - basement - 1 WiiM Pro
Zone 8 - Patio 1 - 1 WiiM Pro

This is $1600 (or less, given Black Friday!) (OSD Amp ($1000) + 4x WiiM Pro (4x $150 = $600)) and has quite a bit of flexibility moving forward for you to add individual room control by adding additional WiiMs and remove zones from the buses. It also doesn’t stop you from adding individual WiiM amps (say, for Patio 2, or for putting Patio 2 on the OSD and using the amp for a different room) later). The key to preserving your flexibility, of course, is to wire up all the rooms in advance, even if you don’t put speakers in right away.

 

[dtc]

If you have multiple speakers on the same zone you need to be careful of impedance. Most ceiling/wall speakers are 8 ohms. Tie two of those together and you get 4 ohms, which is the minimum most multizone amps will take. So, you either have to group speakers in groups of 2 or get an impedance matching box to put between the amp and the speakers. In the old days, we used impedance matching volume controls to deal with this, which is not the current mode, but can be more convenient than using an app to control the volumes. An impedance matching speaker box will let you control the volume of each zone, although I would only use that feature to balance the room. Anyway, you need to consider the total impedance of the load.

Some people here have been using several Fosi power amps, one for each speaker pair. That may be cheaper than one large multizone speaker and could be more flexible. You would need several, but if they are in a closet that might be OK.

Things to consider.

 

[jeffme]

If you have multiple speakers on the same zone you need to be careful of impedance. Most ceiling/wall speakers are 8 ohms. Tie two of those together and you get 4 ohms, which is the minimum most multizone amps will take. So, you either have to group speakers in groups of 2 or get an impedance matching box to put between the amp and the speakers. In the old days, we used impedance matching volume controls to deal with this, which is not the current mode, but can be more convenient than using an app to control the volumes. An impedance matching speaker box will let you control the volume of each zone, although I would only use that feature to balance the room. Anyway, you need to consider the total impedance of the load.

Some people here have been using several Fosi power amps, one for each speaker pair. That may be cheaper than one large multizone speaker and could be more flexible. You would need several, but if they are in a closet that might be OK.

Things to consider.

Yes, but that's assuming the speakers are being grouped on the same outputs on the amp. In the setup I described keeps each set of speakers in their own zone. The grouping happens at the input level, so there's no change to speaker impedance.

The Foai approach is a good & interesting option, for sure, as it minimizes failure risk and is a great amp. The only (and small) downside is a whole extra set of power cables.

 

[jjue1979]

Fosi, Douk, and other variants of these cheap power amps do use external power supplies which can be a different space issue, although it seems that stepping up from 32V to 48V and going up in current does increase the output power on these amps--you can scale power and cost this way. I'm personally interested in getting a Douk Audio H7 Pro to try out with a WiiM Ultra in my music room, partly to see how good these amps are and partly because it actually has VU meters.

 

[mhatch]

Here are 3 of my recent answers on r/sonos on reddit:

followed by:

and this one on speakers:


I recently moved from a purely Sonos-based setup (14 rooms) to a hybrid WiiM/multichannel amp + WiiM amp setup, and unless you have needs for high-end amplification, I think the pure WiiM Amp-based setup (or WiiM Amp Pro, if you don't need Airplay) is the way to go. I've learned the hard way on this one. Multichannel amps (I've used Rotel, AudioControl, Sonance, Lexicon, and Buckeye multichannel amps) all seem good, but there's always a little funkiness that goes along with them. Individual amps require more wiring and maybe a bit more rack space, but save a lot of other headaches. Most residential rooms won't require a lot of watts to enjoy.

The real question is budget. Think about how much you want to spend on speakers first, then amplification. The streamer cost is fixed and WiiM has set the benchmark in this area. A potential way to think about amplifier cost is cost per channel (or cost per 2 channels / per room). Right now, the WiiM Amp is $300 on Amazon. A WiiM Pro is $150. (You definitely want to use a wired setup, btw. Wires are your friend.) So, your cost per room for amplification is $150 per room ($300 - $150).

The Crutchfield OSD 8 zone amp is $125 per room - $1000 / 8 rooms. That's not bad, but you're pretty locked in to playing the same music everywhere. Ever have guests? Want to play at different volumes in different rooms? If want to add streamers (WiiM or Sonos Port) later, your per room cost for Sonos will be much more. Also - your quote only has 1 source in it - the Sonos Port, or the 1 additional amp cost is off - a Sonos Amp is $700, not $150.

So, if you look at the expansion for any future growth, it looks like this:

Base Sonos system - 2 sources + 18 channels/9 zones -> OSD amp ($1000) + Sonos Amp ($700) + Sonos Port ($450) = $2150
+ 1 more source - above ($2150) + Sonos Port ($450) = $2600

Base WiiM system - 2 sources + 18 channels/9 zones -> $1000 + WiiM Amp ($300) + WiiM Pro ($150) = $1450
+1 more source - above ($1450) + WiiM Pro ($150) = $1600

Bottom line is that you're going to have much more flexibility and lower cost with a WiiM-based system, assuming you're focused on in-wall / in-ceiling speakers.

My take? Wire up all nine zones with speakers, but no amps to start. Play around with 4 or 5 WiiM amps to see which areas you're listening to the most. E.g., no bathroom, no closet to start. Then, either double-up some of the speakers to either be in the same zone (e.g., group Main bedroom / closet / bath) and go from there.

How is your Wiim plus Sonos setup working? Just bought a house and am trying to figure out what I'm going to do and want to do something similar with Sonos for the home theater and Wiim for music. I'll have one home theater setup inside and one outside as well.. Would love to use Wiim for the music to save some money on the amps (~4-5 zones). Do you know if you're able to connect a Wiim Pro/Ultra to a Sonos amp and be able to group it with the rest of my wiim amps for music (without any sync issues)? Would like to be able to use my outdoor passive speakers which will be powered by a Sonos amp for music as well as speakers for the TV.

 

[Zphvrq]

Hello.
I hope if someone can help me to decide if WiiM or which WiiM is good choice for me. I have 9 zones in new construction. I will be using Spotify most of the time to listen to music. Is it a good idea to buy 9 WiiM devices for set up or should I go with one that has multi-zone amp? Is WiiM mini good enough for background music? Thank you in advance.
JC

I did my whole house with WiiM Ultras and individual amps. (8 rooms).
Works perfectly! Definitely would suggest this approach.

Amps: EMOTIVA BasX A2
Speakers: Philharmonics

I did wire most ethernet, but have a few wifi and they work as well.

Hope this helps you.
Jeff