Player dysfunction with external DAC

[axellieb]

This is both a report, and a couple of questions.

I have a new Wiim Pro that I initially connected to an external DAC via optical link, and then the DAC into my stereo amp. The DAC is an audioengine D1. I use Android apps to control the Wiim. When trialing with that chain, I had a lot of trouble switching between different streams. For example, after playing a radio channel on TuneIn (via the Wiim Home app), I would try to switch to an album on Amazon Music (also via the Wiim Home app), and that would only work after several attempts. Then, I'd try to switch back to TuneIn, same channel as before, or a different one, and it just wouldn't work at all. I'd have to reboot the Wiim to be even able to play anything from TuneIn. The same issue would happen if I tried switching between something playing via the Wiim Home app and some standalone app like the Amazon Music app, casting via Chromecast. Or even between the standalone apps for Amazon and TuneIn.

So on a random thought, I took the audioengine DAC out and directly connected the Wiim Pro to the amp via Line Out. That fixed the issue. Now I can switch around to my heart's content, without any hiccups.

So that's the report.

My question: isn't that weird? Is there any plausible explanation for this? How would the external DAC affect the function of streams?

And a supplementary question: is there even a point in having an external DAC with the Wiim Pro at all? I haven't done any serious listening yet but my first, casual impression is that there is no obvious difference in sound quality, with or without the audioengine.

 

[Mr Ee]

And a supplementary question: is there even a point in having an external DAC with the Wiim Pro at all? I haven't done any serious listening yet but my first, casual impression is that there is no obvious difference in sound quality, with or without the audioengine.

imo, the Wiim pro (not the plus) has a pretty poor analog output stage, and every other dac I have makes it sound better via digital out.
Can't comment on the plus as I don't have one.
However, if you are happy with the analog out of your pro (plus?) then that's all that really matters.

 

[WiiMer SJ]

No experience with a stand alone DAC, but as I've posted in other threads, I've had the Pro connected to internal DAC's in an old Sony STR-DH510 and currently an Edifier R1280DB using both the optical and coaxial outputs. No issues like you described. In theory it should not matter as the DAC is external to the WiiM but practical applications often defy reason.

Navigate to "Settings" > "Send Us feedback" and submit a ticket to WiiM Support if you've not already done so.

 

[Griff]

My question: isn't that weird? Is there any plausible explanation for this? How would the external DAC affect the function of streams?

Just a thought, although the dac is listed to accept up to 192khz on optical try it on 96khz or lower.

 

[axellieb]

imo, the Wiim pro (not the plus) has a pretty poor analog output stage, and every other dac I have makes it sound better via digital out.
Can't comment on the plus as I don't have one.
However, if you are happy with the analog out of your pro (plus?) then that's all that really matters.

To be fair, the audioengine D1 is a cheap DAC, just $170. It may well be that at that price, no significant improvement can be expected. I believe the cheapest of your DACs (in your sig) is at least double that price.

 

[wunderkind]

Can't help you there on the quirky issues you are experiencing. Best to send a support ticket Wiim.

And a supplementary question: is there even a point in having an external DAC with the Wiim Pro at all? I haven't done any serious listening yet but my first, casual impression is that there is no obvious difference in sound quality, with or without the audioengine.

And that's all that matters.

 

[WiimNoob]

I have my pro connected to an IFI XDSD Gryphon via toslink for my grados ehen i want some private listen I ng. It helps alot. I can also drive a small set of 50W speakers as well with the Gryphon. Gives some better depth.

 

[Mr Ee]

To be fair, the audioengine D1 is a cheap DAC, just $170. It may well be that at that price, no significant improvement can be expected. I believe the cheapest of your DACs (in your sig) is at least double that price.

Fair shout!
A number of people here are using their pro with an smsl su-1, which seems to sell for the ridiculously cheap price of A$120 / U$80.
I'm assuming they prefer that sound to the wiim analog output.
But again, your personal happiness is all that really matters! But you will get the itch...

 

[axellieb]

Fair shout!
A number of people here are using their pro with an smsl su-1, which seems to sell for the ridiculously cheap price of A$120 / U$80.
I'm assuming they prefer that sound to the wiim analog output.
But again, your personal happiness is all that really matters! But you will get the itch...

Yeah, also the audioengine was first produced in 2012, and I think I may have bought it in 2015. I guess DAC chipsets have evolved quite a bit since then.

Thanks for the tip regarding the SU-1. Will check it out.

 

[Brantome]

Maybe an issue with sample rate switching between the different services? As suggested, it might be an idea to submit a ticket to see if WiiM see any clues in your device logs.

 

[WiiMer SJ]

I know the SU-1 is well regarded among reviewers on YouTube.

I could hear a difference between the old Sony receiver and the WiiM Amp, but in that case it's not only a newer DAC but the amplifier section as well.

 

[harkpabst]

For example, after playing a radio channel on TuneIn (via the Wiim Home app), I would try to switch to an album on Amazon Music (also via the Wiim Home app), and that would only work after several attempts. Then, I'd try to switch back to TuneIn, same channel as before, or a different one, and it just wouldn't work at all. I'd have to reboot the Wiim to be even able to play anything from TuneIn. The same issue would happen if I tried switching between something playing via the Wiim Home app and some standalone app like the Amazon Music app, casting via Chromecast. Or even between the standalone apps for Amazon and TuneIn.

If you can toggle the play and pause buttons in the WiiM Home App, then the WiiM Pro is probably playing, but the DAC cannot sync to the output of the Pro. Optical Toslink is S/PDIF minus the copper, so the receiver takes the clock from the output signal (or at least tries to do). As Brantome suggested, the DAC might have trouble detecting the input signal correctly if changing the service also results in a different sampling rate. That wouldn't be too weired, but a logical explanation.

Hard to tell if the WiiM or the Audioengine is to blame here. According to specs the D1's optical input supports sampling rates between 32 and 192 kHz, and the WiiM Pro's S/PDIF output resolution can be configured for maximum sampling rates between 44.1 and 192 kHz (I think). You could try and limit the max. output sample rate to 48 or 44.1 kHz and see if this improves compatibility. Or you just keep it like it is if you don't need the headphone output anyway.

 

[axellieb]

If you can toggle the play and pause buttons in the WiiM Home App, then the WiiM Pro is probably playing, but the DAC cannot sync to the output of the Pro. Optical Toslink is S/PDIF minus the copper, so the receiver takes the clock from the output signal (or at least tries to do). As Brantome suggested, the DAC might have trouble detecting the input signal correctly if changing the service also results in a different sampling rate. That wouldn't be too weired, but a logical explanation.

Hard to tell if the WiiM or the Audioengine is to blame here. According to specs the D1's optical input supports sampling rates between 32 and 192 kHz, and the WiiM Pro's S/PDIF output resolution can be configured for maximum sampling rates between 44.1 and 192 kHz (I think). You could try and limit the max. output sample rate to 48 or 44.1 kHz and see if this improves compatibility. Or you just keep it like it is if you don't need the headphone output anyway.

Thanks for the response. This train has sort of left the station though. As mentioned above, I bought this (cheap) DAC nearly ten years ago (and it was brought to market in 2012, with no change in chipset at least until I bought it.) If one can believe the chatter about DAC chipsets on various audio forums, much improvement has happened in that space since then. I sprang the $80 for an SU-1 yesterday, should arrive here today. I want something that works without significant limitations. This is supposed to be easy!

 

[harkpabst]

Don't forget to compare to the WiiM's analog output, though.

 

[axellieb]

Don't forget to compare to the WiiM's analog output, though.

I've got it hooked to the amp via line-out currently!

 

[harkpabst]

I know.