Preamp volume control for streaming AND vinyl

Magnepanned

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2024
Messages
3
I have a bit of a brain puzzle — I’m using a vintage 4270 Marantz receiver as a phono preamp. My turntable goes into the phono input on the Marantz, plus ground, then the Wiim Pro+ is connected to the Marantz pre outs, then the Wiim channel outputs go to my more powerful amp (an Ashly studio unit). The problem with this is, I can’t control Wiim streaming volume with the Marantz volume knob. I could control it if I connected the Wiim to the AUX in on the Marantz and hooked my amp to the Marantz pre outs, but then I lose the Wiim’s amazing EQ abilities for my turntable and whatever other analog sources I run though the receiver.

Do I need a dedicated phono preamp into the Wiim to solve this lack of volume knob for streaming? I can use the app or the touch buttons, but it makes me nervous that the Wiim is going to blow my speakers without an analog limit.

The spaghetti of it all has me confused. What should I do?

Thanks, team.
 
What should I do?
Welcome!

Upgrade to an Ultra ;)

But more seriously, as the wiim is 'downstream' from the Marantz then anything that starts at the wiim, such as streaming, is effectively invisible to the marantz.

Do I need a dedicated phono preamp into the Wiim to solve this lack of volume knob for streaming?
If, as you suggested, you ran the wiim analog outs to the marantz, then on to the Ashly, yes.
But what about those other analog sources into the marantz, as they'd no longer go via the wiim for eq etc.


...Wiim is going to blow my speakers without an analog limit
A number of people run their wiims into power amps.
Use the line out level and volume limiter to set a max volume out of the wiim.

Does the marantz have line out (fixed volume), or could you just turn the volume knob to 11?
You could consider using the wiim as the only volume control.
The pro+ comes with a remote, right?
 
Last edited:
Thanks, yeah, the Marantz can do line level out (it has TAPE 1 and TAPE 2 for that). The Wiim does work right now to control overall volume while connected via the Marantz preouts. It just can get loud, unpredictably, and I’m more comfortable having volume limited in analog. Maybe the best way to protect my speakers is to just limit the gain on my Ashly amp. Volume levels on the stuff I stream over Amazon Music are wildly inconsistent, so it’s a challenge to get a max volume set through the Wiim alone.
 
Thanks, yeah, the Marantz can do line level out (it has TAPE 1 and TAPE 2 for that). The Wiim does work right now to control overall volume while connected via the Marantz preouts. It just can get loud, unpredictably, and I’m more comfortable having volume limited in analog. Maybe the best way to protect my speakers is to just limit the gain on my Ashly amp. Volume levels on the stuff I stream over Amazon Music are wildly inconsistent, so it’s a challenge to get a max volume set through the Wiim alone.
It's been a while since I had an amp with a tape monitor switch so please excuse me if I'm talking BS from a very cloudy memory, but can't you just connect the WiiM Pro Plus as e.g. Tape 1?

Tape 1 Out to WPP Line-in
Tape 1 In to WPP Line-out
Pre Out to Ashly power amp
Selector permanently set to phono
Source/Tape switch permanently set to Tape

Fixed volume enabled on the WiiM Pro Plus, output voltage probably set to the lowest value. Line-in might need some additional pre-gain, because Tape Out is probably a little low on level. Volume control performed by the Marantz. Changing to a different input than Line-in on the WiiM (e.g. network streaming) should result in the Marantz putting out that signal instead of Phono. All EQ settings of the WiiM Pro Plus could be used for all sources.

Sounds too easy, I probably missed some very obvious catch.
 
It's been a while since I had an amp with a tape monitor switch so please excuse me if I'm talking BS from a very cloudy memory, but can't you just connect the WiiM Pro Plus as e.g. Tape 1?

Tape 1 Out to WPP Line-in
Tape 1 In to WPP Line-out
Pre Out to Ashly power amp
Selector permanently set to phono
Source/Tape switch permanently set to Tape

Fixed volume enabled on the WiiM Pro Plus, output voltage probably set to the lowest value. Line-in might need some additional pre-gain, because Tape Out is probably a little low on level. Volume control performed by the Marantz. Changing to a different input than Line-in on the WiiM (e.g. network streaming) should result in the Marantz putting out that signal instead of Phono. All EQ settings of the WiiM Pro Plus could be used for all sources.

Sounds too easy, I probably missed some very obvious catch.
No, you didn’t miss a thing! This works beautifully — thank you!!! So cool. The tape in, tape out option never occurred to me. Brilliant.
 
Hey Harkpabst,
Does your terrific configuration result in both the DAC and the preamp being used?
Cheers,
Peter
Following the recommendation I gave to @Magnepanned technically results in the DAC and the internal pre-amp being used, indeed. But since the WiiM Pro Plus is used in fixed output voltage mode it's volume control is bypassed.

Does that answer your question?
 
Following the recommendation I gave to @Magnepanned technically results in the DAC and the internal pre-amp being used, indeed. But since the WiiM Pro Plus is used in fixed output voltage mode it's volume control is bypassed.

Does that answer your question?
Hey Harkpabst,
Many thanks for your response, much appreciated indeed.
What exactly does that mean?
 
My system currently consists of…
- Cambridge Audio 740a 100 w/c integrated analogue amp, around 15 years old.
- Marantz C5005 CD player, around 7 years old.
- Focal Aria 936 towers.
- WiiM Pro Plus.
Luv music but the WiiM is doing my head in trying to understand how it Will fit into my system.
Here’s what I’m trying to achieve…
I wish to utilise the DAC as well the preamp, jig the Cambridge so it can be used as a power amp.
Are you able to help mate?
 
I have a few integrated amps that can be used as power amps instead, or where specific inputs can bypass the volume control effectively making it a power amp for that input.

However, for all my wiims I run the amps / their inputs in their 'normal' integrated mode and the wiims in variable volume mode.
Yes, this does mean that either device can control the volume.
Sometimes I turn the wiim to full and use the amp remote; sometimes I turn the amp up loud and use the wiim app or wiim remote.
One benefit of this is that the amp's volume setting is the deciding factor in how loud it'll go, just in case someone accidentally swipes the wiim volume to max...

So, imo, simply plug the Wiim's analog out into one of the Cambridge's analog in, turn the amp volume up as loud as you'd ever want it with the wiim at 100%, and use the wiim as your main volume control.

Edit: And while catching up on all the posts in the last day or so I see you already have all the info you need in another thread!
Hopefully it's clear now :)
 
Last edited:
@Kirpo, this is more of less the exact opposite of what @Magnepanned was trying to accomplish. ;)

As far as I can tell from the specs the 740a doesn't have a fixed level or unity gain input, anyway. All of its inputs are affected by its own volume control. So it's best to go with what @Mr Ee recommended:
So, imo, simply plug the Wiim's analog out into one of the Cambridge's analog in, turn the amp volume up as loud as you'd ever want it with the wiim at 100%, and use the wiim as your main volume control.

As long as you do not plan to connect an active subwoofer to the WiiM Ultra the exact position of the 740a's volume know is not too important. It's just better to have the Ultra's volume control in the upper half of its range to avoid potential loss in precision.
 
It's been a while since I had an amp with a tape monitor switch so please excuse me if I'm talking BS from a very cloudy memory, but can't you just connect the WiiM Pro Plus as e.g. Tape 1?

Tape 1 Out to WPP Line-in
Tape 1 In to WPP Line-out
Pre Out to Ashly power amp
Selector permanently set to phono
Source/Tape switch permanently set to Tape

Fixed volume enabled on the WiiM Pro Plus, output voltage probably set to the lowest value. Line-in might need some additional pre-gain, because Tape Out is probably a little low on level. Volume control performed by the Marantz. Changing to a different input than Line-in on the WiiM (e.g. network streaming) should result in the Marantz putting out that signal instead of Phono. All EQ settings of the WiiM Pro Plus could be used for all sources.

Sounds too easy, I probably missed some very obvious catch.
I have a question to it

I have an old Marantz amp. At the moment the WiiM pro+ is connectect via WiiM line out to my AUX 1, the selector to AUX 1 and I can listen to my stream.
I conneceted my Dual phono to the phono inputs of the Marantz.

So switching between phono and AUX 1 to listen.

On tape 1 in I connected my external headphone amp. Listen with my headphone amp, I switch the "rec selector" to "source" so I bypass anything from the Marantz.
https://www.hifi-archiv.info/Marantz/Marantz-PM68-PM78-Manual/MarantzPM68 79.jpg

If I use your idea I could connect the WiiM to Tape 2 instead AUX 1 but how to switch with wich selection to listen to phono or stream?

And does it mean that I can use the EQ for my phono, right?
 
I have a question to it

I have an old Marantz amp. At the moment the WiiM pro+ is connectect via WiiM line out to my AUX 1, the selector to AUX 1 and I can listen to my stream.
I conneceted my Dual phono to the phono inputs of the Marantz.

So switching between phono and AUX 1 to listen.

On tape 1 in I connected my external headphone amp. Listen with my headphone amp, I switch the "rec selector" to "source" so I bypass anything from the Marantz.
https://www.hifi-archiv.info/Marantz/Marantz-PM68-PM78-Manual/MarantzPM68 79.jpg

If I use your idea I could connect the WiiM to Tape 2 instead AUX 1 but how to switch with wich selection to listen to phono or stream?

And does it mean that I can use the EQ for my phono, right?
Are you sure your headphone amp is connected to "tape 1 in"? That would be an input, it couldn't send any output to the amp. I'm assuming it's actually connected to "tape 1 out". I also assume your speakers are connected to the "system 1" outputs. If not, just replace "speakers 1" with "speakers 2" in the following sections.

General setup
Connect your WiiM Pro Plus' line out to "tape 2 in" instead of "aux 1". If you wan't to be able to apply the WiiM's EQ to the turntable input, also connect "tape 2 out" to the line input of the Pro Plus. Don't use the "source direct" button whenever you have set the rec selctor to anything but "off", as "source direct" will disable the tape outputs.

Case 1, streaming sources to speakers
Enable speakers 1. Play something on the WiiM and press the "tape 2" button. The position of the input selector on the Marantz shouldn't matter. Set the rec selector to "off", so the WiiM Pro Plus doesn't try to auto-sense what's fed into it's line input.

Case 2, Dual turntable directly to speakers (no EQ)
Enable speakers 1. Set the input selector to "phono" (as before) and do not push any of the two tape buttons. The position of the rec selector doesn't really matter, but setting it to "off" will ensure that no output is sent to either the headphone amp or the Pro Plus.

Case 3, Dual turntable to speakers with WiiM EQ
Enable speakers 1. Leave the input selector in the "phono" position, but set the rec selector to "source" and press the tape 2 button. On your WiiM Pro Plus select the line-input if auto-sense doesn't do so anyway.

Case 4, streaming sources to headphones
Disable speakers 1 and 2. Play your streaming content on the Pro Plus and set the rec selector to "2->1 tape copy". This will direct the WiiM's line output (connected to tape 2 in) to tape 1 out. The position of the source selector doesn't matter. Caveat: If you have applied the WiiM room correction for use with your speakers you will have to disable it manually on the Pro Plus.

Case 5, Dual turntable to headphones (no EQ)
Disable speakers 1 and 2. Set the source selector to "phono" and the rec selector to "source", justs as before. The phono signal will also be send to the WiiM's line input, so it may wake up from standby if you have auto-sensing enable for the line input.

Case 6, Dual turntable to headphones with WiiM EQ
Disable speakers 1 and 2. Set the source selector to "phono". As mentioned before, the phono signal will be send to the WiiM's line in. Select the line-input if auto-sensing doesn't do it. The WiiM Pro Plus output is fed into "tape 2 in", so again set the rec selector to "2->1 tape copy" to direct this signal to your headphone amp.


Warning! No, I did not test this, of course. It all just stems from my understanding of how your amp should work to the best of my knoweldge. If something happens to not work out ... well, my advice comes with no warranty. :) I hope my explanation makes some sense to you and doesn't come across as as bunch of random rules.
 
Are you sure your headphone amp is connected to "tape 1 in"? That would be an input, it couldn't send any output to the amp. I'm assuming it's actually connected to "tape 1 out". I also assume your speakers are connected to the "system 1" outputs. If not, just replace "speakers 1" with "speakers 2" in the following sections.




Warning! No, I did not test this, of course. It all just stems from my understanding of how your amp should work to the best of my knoweldge. If something happens to not work out ... well, my advice comes with no warranty. :) I hope my explanation makes some sense to you and doesn't come across as as bunch of random rules.
And you are the official hero.
Thats the way it works yep.

And you you are right the headphone amp was connectec to tape 1 OUT.

Thank you :love:😍🥰
 
Back
Top