"re-clocking" the Ultra digital out ?

[tabata]

We are in a Golden Age, everyone. A Wiim Pro Plus or Ultra and something like a Purifi amp is an immaculately clean, needs-no-improvement front end. Pick a good pair of speakers and you can put all the wasteful boomer audiophile hocus pocus out of your mind forever.

Or skip the amp altogether and get a set of LSX II, LS50 WII, or LS60s (whatever budget allows) and simplify even further.

 

[pieterv1]

Yes the subtle improvements as described are simply not possible to obtain as we're talking 0's and 1's. It's a different story in the analog domain.

 

[tabata]

So far I am loyal to WiiM, but this forum is not at all part of the enjoyement

Loyal to WiiM, but the whole premise of your claim is calling them incompetent engineers. You’re also suggesting the third-party measurements of the Ultra are either wrong or missing something your ears can hear.

I listen to music, not to my gear

Says the person trying to tell us they hear a difference in re-clocking!

 

[Pragmatist]

Aargh...I should have read the last line..

 

[canard]

O

Thread 'Jitter over digital outputs for different WiiMs'

Jul 31, 2024

Let's talk about the jitter over digital outputs. I will use the Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC which is a true NOS DAC and has an unique ability to turn off its PLL. This way I can compare a raw performance of the outputs in j-test.

Ultra, toslink:




Ultra, coaxial:




Pro, toslink:




Pro, coaxial:




Mini, toslink:





Non-WiiM device for a quick comparison, SMSL PO100 Pro, coaxial:





All WiiMs have similar random jitter level, which is reflected by the noise floor, but they differ a lot with the periodic jitter, which is...

• onlyoneme
• Replies: 69
• Forum: General thoughts for WiiM

• 

 

[azoriusmage]

Never let science get in the way of Snake Oil

 

[Musician]

I use the Ultra + VibeLink combination (with either Pro-Ject SpeakerBox S2 or Klipsch RB-61, via a passive speaker switch).
I have used alternatively analog to analog and optical to optical link between the two WiiM devices, and never could decide what sounded best (I did run room correction routine with every change). I listen to Tidal Connect or my own flac files, direct on the WiiM Home or from roon.

Recently, I stumbled upon a video on YouTube from the Cheap Audioman, suggesting to put a 're-clocker' between both devices. I happened to have an 'SMSL PO 100 AK' unused (it is an AKM AK-4493S DAC, but also a USB to optical/coax DDC, based on the XU-316 XMOS chip) and gave it a try: to my surprise, the sound improved significantly both in clarity, punchiness AND in overall volume !

What do you think ? Does the digital signal from the Ultra really need re-clocking ? Is it something else ? I did not (yet) dare to plug the analog out from the SMSL as an AKM DAC into the analog input of the VibeLink, but who knows ...

SMSL now sells a more simple XU-316 DDC (no DAC) for €38 on Amazon, and I think it's worth a try if you want to check by yourselves.

T

My advice is to always trust your ears.

Even a product that might actually be worsening the signal ( such as a DDC with sample rate conversion ) can be perceived as a sound improvement. Any sample rate converted DDC will sound harder, thinner and less natural, but if your amplifier or/and speakers are on the dull sounding side this might be prefered as a sound improvement.

I use a Rega dac R with my ultra and the sound with this dac is an improvement over the better measuring internal ultra dac , - to me. The Rega dac R has a very bad SINAD of 86 dB. But the sound is wonderful.

The Ultras jitter performance are almost perfect on the digital spdif outputs and this streamer is the most measured device out there, so the fact is this : it measures very well, theres no need for any reclocker.

So trust your ears, and dont fall in the ASR religion ” it cant sound better because it measures perfect ”, because the perceived sound quality can be prefered with some colorations.

I would also advice you to not fall in the ” highend is always measuring better ” pit, because many retailers are selling bad measuring gear that is perceived as sounding better by most people. The very flawed two channel system often needs some colorations. Keep your DDC if you like the sound more with it.

 

[AlxTMX]

I'm use SMSL PO100 Pro as a reclocker for my WiiM Ultra for a last few month and improvements are significant. I do prefer Optical over Coaxial or I²S for its galvanic isolation but here the differences are quiet negligible if it's not a self-hipnosis for me. Note the rest of my system is at the very top HiFi domain so I can here such differences but if the system is not so sophisticated one could hard to note it because the main bottleneck of the system can be in a completely different place.
All at all, one could try this $60 solution to decide if it get better sound for one's system, rather of theorize how it could (not) to be.

 

[thierryb92]

I'm use SMSL PO100 Pro as a reclocker for my WiiM Ultra for a last few month and improvements are significant. I do prefer Optical over Coaxial or I²S for its galvanic isolation but here the differences are quiet negligible if it's not a self-hipnosis for me. Note the rest of my system is at the very top HiFi domain so I can here such differences but if the system is not so sophisticated one could hard to note it because the main bottleneck of the system can be in a completely different place.

Finally someone with comparable gear
share their experience. Given the level of scepticism (I mean contempt) I received so far, this is refreshing, regardless of your perception. That you feel the SMSL improves your listening pleasure is, on top of this, also comforting.
Thanks,
T

 

[AlxTMX]

There are some price-comparable (x2 or x3 pricier to be honest) solutions for USB reclocking from iFi and I have tried them all but PO100 Pro is simply better in my system. But I don't know if it's better for everyone. So the only hint I cold give is "Have a try".

 

[MonoMariop]

So trust your ears, and dont fall in the ASR religion ” it cant sound better because it measures perfect ”, because the perceived sound quality can be prefered with some colorations.

Such a ridiculous clueless statement. ASR never tells you cant trust you ears...at least know what you are talking before talking nonsense.

Dont trust YOUR EYES..that is the issue. Amir encourages people to do simple blind tests..no measurments needed, just listening. But since non of the believers can hear the magic when they cant see the gear, that is the issue.
So yeah, do not spread misinformation to try descredit a website that encourages FACTS and SCIENCE vs non sense anecdotal "evidence" that is never backed up by any proofs, be it measurement or blind test.
So indeed, trust you ears..not your eyes

 

[MonoMariop]

I'm use SMSL PO100 Pro as a reclocker for my WiiM Ultra for a last few month and improvements are significant. I do prefer Optical over Coaxial or I²S for its galvanic isolation but here the differences are quiet negligible if it's not a self-hipnosis for me. Note the rest of my system is at the very top HiFi domain so I can here such differences but if the system is not so sophisticated one could hard to note it because the main bottleneck of the system can be in a completely different place.
All at all, one could try this $60 solution to decide if it get better sound for one's system, rather of theorize how it could (not) to be.

You THINK you did....any blind test will prove you wrong. Facts are facts.

 

[Pragmatist]

 

[onlyoneme]

Recently, I stumbled upon a video on YouTube from the Cheap Audioman, suggesting to put a 're-clocker' between both devices. I happened to have an 'SMSL PO 100 AK' unused (it is an AKM AK-4493S DAC, but also a USB to optical/coax DDC, based on the XU-316 XMOS chip) and gave it a try: to my surprise, the sound improved significantly both in clarity, punchiness AND in overall volume !

What do you think ? Does the digital signal from the Ultra really need re-clocking ? Is it something else ? I did not (yet) dare to plug the analog out from the SMSL as an AKM DAC into the analog input of the VibeLink, but who knows ...

In fact your SMSL is not a reclocker because it doesn't receive a clock over USB.
While I can imagine sound improvements after adding a simple DDC in your setup, I can't believe that sound volume level changed too. At least not in the bit perfect digital path.

 

[AlxTMX]

You THINK you did....any blind test will prove you wrong. Facts are facts.

And You did? Bet You're not Your theory against my practice. It's so funny ))
So, OK, I've did it A LOT. If i here the difference, I say that I'm here it. Is I'm not, than I say that I'm not. Personally I never say that there is the difference or there it's not. Only that I'm here it or not.
The problem with people like You or Amir (I call them the Sect of the Witnesses of the Meander), which, like any sectsrians, they think they know the Great Truth or want to have a monopoly on it and can't stand those who doubt it.
But the only truth of perception is that it is subjective.

 

[Pragmatist]

I remember me in my Sturm und Drang

 

[MonoMariop]

And You did? Bet You're not Your theory against my practice. It's so funny ))
So, OK, I've did it A LOT. If i here the difference, I say that I'm here it. Is I'm not, than I say that I'm not. Personally I never say that there is the difference or there it's not. Only that I'm here it or not.
The problem with people like You or Amir (I call them the Sect of the Witnesses of the Meander), which, like any sectis, they think they know the Great Truth or want to have a monopoly on it. But the only truth of perception is that it is subjective.

Again PROVE it or zip it. You got ZERO proof, and will never pass a single blind test. THAT is a fact and the truth..no amount of sugar coating and spinning things around will change that. If you or any of those snake oil sellers had a single piece of evidence, it will be plastered everywhere but alas, all they got is pretty words and gullible followers lol
Oh well..some people just cant be helped..just like the ones in those catfished shows...the whole world can see the reality except them. LOL
Enjoy your imagination"improvements" lol

 

[AlxTMX]

In fact your SMSL is not a reclocker because it doesn't receive a clock over USB.

A reclocker is not required to have a clock frequency at the input, but such an option undoubtedly improves the quality of its work. All it must do is to produce a stable clock frequency output and a signal tied to it. How exactly it does this is a matter of a specific decision.

 

[AlxTMX]

View attachment 21713

Again PROVE it or zip it. You got ZERO proof, and will never pass a single blind test.

The very same to You. The only difference You dream You're objective and I know I'm subjective.
And I bet you've never done blind testing (moreover in this particular setup). You're only have a read about it inn your Sacred Books.
So i'm not sure which one of us needs the colored pills LOLROFL

 

[vdp]