Tech Tuesday: Deep Dive into Room Correction

[EddNog]

It seems just like my story, and my conclusions. I like Wiim Ultra a lot and I use it as a pure streamer, and it works well. As soon as I go fiddling with RC hell breaks loose. I must say that Anti-mode sweeps for around 10 minutes, versus 10 seconds with Wiim, but that's what probably takes to get the sound right.

I'll take one 10-minute sweep over multitudes of mic moves & sweeps (DIRAC).

-Ed

 

[canard]

I'm going to be completely candid with you--I spent weeks trying to get my sound the way I wanted it with WiiM Ultra using a UMIK-1, and, what is mostly driven by lack of L/R correction ability when using the subwoofer/bass management, I simply could not get it to sound how I wanted it to.

Purchased the Anti-Mode X2D, connected everything up, manually adjusted subwoofer phase at the crossover point (80Hz, and found 90-degrees to be optimal), performed the calibration sweep ONCE (Anti-Mode X2D needs readings from only the one listening sweet spot, not upwards of 9 spots like MiniDSP/DIRAC), adjusted subwoofer level and I achieved better sound than I could ever achieve in months of faffing with the WiiM/UMIK-1. In 45 minutes I got my system sounding better than ever with minimal effort compared to months of no success with the WiiM.

Again, most likely the WiiM being unable to perform L/R when using subwoofer management. My room/speaker setup is highly asymmetrical. I cannot change it, I have other life priorities (specifically 7- and 5-year-old sons whose lives dominate our home).

No way in hell I'm ditching my sub or my loudspeakers that I love and need a sub to perform their best.

It is moot point to me and only academic to go faffing with REW. I do have it installed on my laptop. I opened it one time after installing it, saw the eleventeen-thousand different parameters written in a language foreign to me, and immediately shut the app down.

I'm not a sound engineer; I work in finance and have a culinary school college degree. REW might as well be a manual on how to build a rocket to the moon.

-Ed

uhhhh my point is of another order of idea... just curious if you were equipped for observations with factually observing the impact compared to other approaches to that of wiim as for you... why does not work at your level.... that's all...
(personally I am not concerned.... for my part I will stick to the current rc wiim tests only if:
a mic cal...
if no subwoofer...
and if only on a reduced frequency range like 55*60/300hz by limiting the generally clumsy attempts at positive gain in these frequencies....
the management of the subwoofers in frequencies or timing / phase, see the efforts in high pass / low pass remains a subject to be completed it seems first..
(like the multi-measurement...)

peq is for me for....headphone...

 

[EddNog]

uhhhh my point is of another order of idea... just curious if you were equipped for observations with factually observing the impact compared to other approaches to that of wiim as for you... why does not work at your level.... that's all...
(personally I am not concerned.... for my part I will stick to the current rc wiim tests only if:
a mic cal...
if no subwoofer...
and if only on a reduced frequency range like 55*60/300hz by limiting the generally clumsy attempts at positive gain in these frequencies....
the management of the subwoofers in frequencies or timing / phase, see the efforts in high pass / low pass remains a subject to be completed it seems first..
(like the multi-measurement...)

peq is for me for....headphone...

If you're looking for objective reasoning why the DSPeaker is superior, I can list several major reasons off-hand right here:
1) Able to combine bass management with separate left/right correction (previously mentioned, because the Anti-Mode X2D is a true 2.1 solution)
2) Compensates for both, frequency response and timing/phase issues (not just frequency response)
3) Does not attempt to do stupid things like boost room nulls as the WiiM does (DSPeaker never applies boosts unless user chooses to with tone control)
4) Clear behavior with regards to how it actually handles frequency boosting (the DSPeaker definitely applies a full-range preamp level volume reduction in the event a boost is applied, and the only time a boost is applied is when the user applies a tone-level boost to simulate a non-flat curve, so for example when I raise parts of low frequencies to simulate, for example, a Harman curve, I notice the maximum volume setting on the unit goes down to -4dB), whereas the WiiM has zero indication as to how it applies boosts (with/without preamp reduction? does it just boost things to distortion/clipping? it's a complete mystery)

I don't need to rely on subjective listening to know that it's going to sound better than the WiiM--I know for a fact that it will for all these reasons. My ears' subjective perception happen to support my objective reasoning.

As for the more clear and obvious observations with my ears, for example, due to the inability to perform L/R with subwoofer on with the WiiM, the stereo imaging is off in my room and vocalists are always 1-2 feet to the right of center. With the Anti-Mode X2D, vocalists are dead-center when they're supposed to be. Bass is controlled instead of boomy.

-Ed

 

[Vignus]

I'll take one 10-minute sweep over multitudes of mic moves & sweeps (DIRAC).

-Ed

Agree. Tell me, what do you use as main volume control, Wiim, DSPeaker or amp?

 

[canard]

If you're looking for objective reasoning why the DSPeaker is superior, I can list several major reasons off-hand right here:
1) Able to combine bass management with separate left/right correction (previously mentioned, because the Anti-Mode X2D is a true 2.1 solution)
2) Compensates for both, frequency response and timing/phase issues (not just frequency response)
3) Does not attempt to do stupid things like boost room nulls as the WiiM does (DSPeaker never applies boosts unless user chooses to with tone control)
4) Clear behavior with regards to how it actually handles frequency boosting (the DSPeaker definitely applies a full-range preamp level volume reduction in the event a boost is applied, and the only time a boost is applied is when the user applies a tone-level boost to simulate a non-flat curve, so for example when I raise parts of low frequencies to simulate, for example, a Harman curve, I notice the maximum volume setting on the unit goes down to -4dB), whereas the WiiM has zero indication as to how it applies boosts (with/without preamp reduction? does it just boost things to distortion/clipping? it's a complete mystery)

I don't need to rely on subjective listening to know that it's going to sound better than the WiiM--I know for a fact that it will for all these reasons. My ears' subjective perception happen to support my objective reasoning.

As for the more clear and obvious observations with my ears, for example, due to the inability to perform L/R with subwoofer on with the WiiM, the stereo imaging is off in my room and vocalists are always 1-2 feet to the right of center. With the Anti-Mode X2D, vocalists are dead-center when they're supposed to be. Bass is controlled instead of boomy.

-Ed

more modestly under ios try housecurve, few dollars...even if it means borrowing an apple...
(then transfer in peq under android wiim...)
ps actually not addressed to you of course

 

[EddNog]

Agree. Tell me, what do you use as main volume control, Wiim, DSPeaker or amp?

I use WiiM for volume control because I use the WiiM also as part of my TV/home theater setup, and by using the WiiM for volume control, I am able to rely on my video streamer (Apple TV 4K)'s remote to control volume when watching shows/movies. If I use the Anti-Mode for volume control, watching TV becomes a confusing affair for other members of my household because they don't want to have to deal with a separate remote just for volume.

Can't use the amp for volume control. Besides the fact that they're pure monoblocs with no volume control anyway, it would also put them out of sync with my subwoofer's volume level.

-Ed

 

[Vignus]

I use WiiM for volume control because I use the WiiM also as part of my TV/home theater setup, and by using the WiiM for volume control, I am able to rely on my video streamer (Apple TV 4K)'s remote to control volume when watching shows/movies. If I use the Anti-Mode for volume control, watching TV becomes a confusing affair for other members of my household because they don't want to have to deal with a separate remote just for volume.

Can't use the amp for volume control. Besides the fact that they're pure monoblocs with no volume control anyway, it would also put them out of sync with my subwoofer's volume level.

-Ed

Makes absolute sense, but how do you control the subwoofer volume so that it doesn't sound too loud when you listen in background? I understand your sub is being handled by the Anti-Mode?

 

[EddNog]

Makes absolute sense, but how do you control the subwoofer volume so that it doesn't sound too loud when you listen in background? I understand your sub is being handled by the Anti-Mode?

The volume of the subwoofer goes up and down with the volume of the speakers since the volume is controlled upstream at the WiiM. The base volume level of the subwoofer (versus the speakers) is adjustable in two places, at the DSPeaker Anti-Mode (it has an adjustment for subwoofer volume relative to speakers) and also in the subwoofer itself with its DSP.

-Ed

 

[Vignus]

The volume of the subwoofer goes up and down with the volume of the speakers since the volume is controlled upstream at the WiiM. The base volume level of the subwoofer (versus the speakers) is adjustable in two places, at the DSPeaker Anti-Mode (it has an adjustment for subwoofer volume relative to speakers) and also in the subwoofer itself with its DSP.

-Ed

Thank you

 

[AndyB]

I have tried room correction in various ways with highly variable results. However the attached screen grab shows my latest attempt. It was achieved by taking three measurements for left and right, the first in the sweet spot, the second 30cm to the left and the third 30cm to the right. Frequency range 40-6000Hz. Any comments?

 

[Vladetz]

I have tried room correction in various ways with highly variable results. However the attached screen grab shows my latest attempt. It was achieved by taking three measurements for left and right, the first in the sweet spot, the second 30cm to the left and the third 30cm to the right. Frequency range 40-6000Hz. Any comments?

Are you using calibrated microphone?
Limit correction to 300hz

 

[pjorgenunes]

I have tried room correction in various ways with highly variable results. However the attached screen grab shows my latest attempt. It was achieved by taking three measurements for left and right, the first in the sweet spot, the second 30cm to the left and the third 30cm to the right. Frequency range 40-6000Hz. Any comments?

Are you using the "Precision Room Correction" switch in settings?

 

[Giro413]

I have been trying RC ever since it was launched and each and every time I find that my system without RC just sounds better - so that's how I run it. Either the sound is "muddy" or the bass loses its definition with RC/EQ on. The latter being the case in the most recent RC update (L/R with sub). I always only correct below 300-400 hz . At this point I have pretty much given up on room correction, altogether. And to be honest it is a bit of a relief. I am not dissatisfied with my sound, so maybe my room is just perfect - at least to my tastes. I do have some accoustic treatment in the form of absorbing panels scattered across the walls, but to be honest their placement is pretty random (above counch opposite of speakers and on one of the side walls). I guess my question is, if it even is a question, if maybe room correction is just not for everyone? I don't have measurements to share, this is more of a general remark.

 

[slartibartfast]

I have been trying RC ever since it was launched and each and every time I find that my system without RC just sounds better - so that's how I run it. Either the sound is "muddy" or the bass loses its definition with RC/EQ on. The latter being the case in the most recent RC update (L/R with sub). I always only correct below 300-400 hz . At this point I have pretty much given up on room correction, altogether. And to be honest it is a bit of a relief. I am not dissatisfied with my sound, so maybe my room is just perfect - at least to my tastes. I do have some accoustic treatment in the form of absorbing panels scattered across the walls, but to be honest their placement is pretty random (above counch opposite of speakers and on one of the side walls). I guess my question is, if it even is a question, if maybe room correction is just not for everyone? I don't have measurements to share, this is more of a general remark.

Which microphone did you use? Phone mics don't work well at low frequencies.

 

[Giro413]

Which microphone did you use? Phone mics don't work well a low frequencies.

That may be it, then. I have only ever used my iphone 14 Pro mic. Have a friend who has a UMIK-1 which I could give a try. Maybe that should be my last resort before I throw in the RC-towel completely. Was not aware that that could make such a big difference.

 

[slartibartfast]

That may be it, then. I have only ever used my iphone 14 Pro mic. Have a friend who has a UMIK-1 which I could give a try. Maybe that should be my last resort before I throw in the RC-towel completely. Was not aware that that could make such a big difference.

Worth a try. Also try different target curves.

 

[Vladetz]

That may be it, then. I have only ever used my iphone 14 Pro mic. Have a friend who has a UMIK-1 which I could give a try. Maybe that should be my last resort before I throw in the RC-towel completely. Was not aware that that could make such a big difference.

Post in thread 'Different results of room correction on iOS and Android' https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/...orrection-on-ios-and-android.7030/post-123474

You can check my comparison of ipad (should be close to iphone) mic (pic 1) and Dayton imm-6c (pic 2) to have some idea of possible difference

 

[Lomax_hjs]

Well, that was terrible

Didn't read the whole story, just did it in the app en put the EQ adjusment off again.

 

[slartibartfast]

Well, that was terrible

Didn't read the whole story, just did it in the app en put the EQ adjusment off again.

If you don't"t say what settings you used and which microphone we can't tell how you could improve the result.

 

[Lomax_hjs]

If you don't"t say what settings you used and which microphone we can't tell how you could improve the result.

I understand, but it was so bad for my experience when I used the app on my Zenfone 9 i don't want to improve