Upgrade advice: External DAC or WiiM Sub Pro?

SKApretto71

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2024
Messages
97
I'm very happy of my WiiM Ultra + VibelinkAmp that I connect via Optical. I'm very happy of my loudspeakers (AE500) as well.

Thinking on upgrades, would you first go External DAC (Topping / SMSL / ...) to fit in between, or WiiM Sub Pro? DAC second hand at same price of WiiM Sub Pro are quite great.

In my listening sessions I do not feel need for extra bass and I primarily enjoy high sound clarity, separation and presentation.
 
The thing is, there is no issue to address if you have the right speakers.
Even cardioid-bass speakers aren't 100% immune to SBIR and room modes, so that is not really correct.

And if we start talking about consistent low bass across a wider listening area (i.e. multiple seats), there's almost no way to achieve that without multiple subs.

This is related to acoustics of residential-size rooms and physics of sound, not loudspeaker quality.

That’s not to say that nice loudspeakers without subs can't sound great - they absolutely can!
But the chance is pretty good they could sound even better with properly integrated subs...
 
Even cardioid-bass speakers aren't 100% immune to SBIR and room modes, so that is not really correct.

And if we start talking about consistent low bass across a wider listening area (i.e. multiple seats), there's almost no way to achieve that without multiple subs.

This is related to acoustics of residential-size rooms and physics of sound, not loudspeaker quality.

That’s not to say that nice loudspeakers without subs can't sound great - they absolutely can!
But the chance is pretty good they could sound even better with properly integrated subs...
You are certainly right in that there is always room for improvement.
The question is, where does it stop?
Placing one or (as you suggest) multiple subs in a living room is a major intrusion unless you live in a castle-like hall.

I‘m not confined to $1000 bookshelf speakers, which will most certainly require a sub in order to deliver any substantial bass without falling apart. So the next best thing to cluttering a living room with subs is a pair of very decent speakers combined with the best and most powerful amp you can find and afford. Power does help, even if you only use a fraction of it 95% of the time.
 
I should have said, they seem to regulate themselves down. I can‘t measure it, I can‘t prove it.
My statement is based on the following.

I have run the Amp Ultra at 100% volume. As of about 88% there was no further increase in volume. I didn‘t hear any clipping. In fact the sound didn‘t change at all going further up.

During normal listening, especially movies, there were low bass effects with my new amp that didn‘t come out or were mushed with the Amp Ultra. Those movies are DVD rips I have, so this was repeatable and not a random experience.

To which other conclusion should I have come?
 
Of course, you can have both. It's just that these two devices solve such different problems, and the need for them is just as different. Taking them separately, I would, if possible, replace the bookshelf speakers with floorstanders instead of a subwoofer. This solves the issue of space required for a subwoofer and compatibility issues. Regarding DACs, you just have to decide by ear. If you think it's necessary, then buy.
 
You are certainly right in that there is always room for improvement.
The question is, where does it stop?
Value judgement of anything in audio will be highly personal - I imagine this statement might resonate with many audio enthusiasts.

Some people might be happy with a cheap BT speaker, while others won't be happy until they build a dedicated, acoustically treated and soundproofed listening room with soffit-mounted loudspeakers.

There's probably no single point on that spectrum which is universally 'right' for everyone.

So your question can't be answered conclusively - I can only say that bass management can effectively address very real, measurable issues with very audible consequences. It is up to every person to decide for themselves if that makes it worth it (for them) or not.

Placing one or (as you suggest) multiple subs in a living room is a major intrusion unless you live in a castle-like hall.
Just to clarify that I didn't mean to suggest everyone should be using multiple subs, and I apologize if it came out that way!

Multiple subs are a good solution if there is a need to get a consistent bass response across multiple listening positions over a wider area.

For a single listening position a single (well-placed and integrated) sub is usually enough. There will be some degradation at other seats, but if the seats are not too far from one another I imagine most people would be happy.

Recently I've tried to summarize some common acoustical issues in residential rooms, as well as ways to address them, in this post - perhaps some will find it useful.

Power does help, even if you only use a fraction of it 95% of the time.
If that 5% of the time you do need the extra power, then of course it helps!
If one never needs the extra power, however, then a lower powered amplifier would work just as well.

I should have said, they seem to regulate themselves down. I can‘t measure it, I can‘t prove it.
My statement is based on the following.

I have run the Amp Ultra at 100% volume. As of about 88% there was no further increase in volume. I didn‘t hear any clipping. In fact the sound didn‘t change at all going further up.

During normal listening, especially movies, there were low bass effects with my new amp that didn‘t come out or were mushed with the Amp Ultra. Those movies are DVD rips I have, so this was repeatable and not a random experience.

To which other conclusion should I have come?
Well based on what you describe it seems to me you simply needed a more powerful amp.

Note also that with the WiiM Amp Ultra the level increases by only about 3dB going from 90% to 100% (see the "output volume curve" section in this post) - which really isn't that much louder subjectively, so I'm not that surprised to hear there wasn't very much perceived difference in loudness going from 88%-100%. The WiiM volume step size is also not consistent across its range, as shown by @Nanook in this post.

That being said, with my speakers and in my environment I'd never dare push the Amp Ultra over about 60% volume - I'm sure my neighbours would call the police on me if I tried! 😅
 
Go for the sub. I sold my stand alone DAC (Schiit Bifrost 2) after getting my Ultra. -- couldn't tell a difference. A properly set up sub makes a big difference in audio quality. But, I realize some people like extra boxes and experimenting.
 
You are certainly right in that there is always room for improvement.
The question is, where does it stop?
Placing one or (as you suggest) multiple subs in a living room is a major intrusion unless you live in a castle-like hall.

I‘m not confined to $1000 bookshelf speakers, which will most certainly require a sub in order to deliver any substantial bass without falling apart. So the next best thing to cluttering a living room with subs is a pair of very decent speakers combined with the best and most powerful amp you can find and afford. Power does help, even if you only use a fraction of it 95% of the time.
I'm not confined either in my living room (old bug good floor standing there), the WiiMis my Home Office Little room that is where most of my listening occurs as I spend lot of time there... And yes, I have limited space so bookshelf were the only option.
 
Of course, you can have both. It's just that these two devices solve such different problems, and the need for them is just as different. Taking them separately, I would, if possible, replace the bookshelf speakers with floorstanders instead of a subwoofer. This solves the issue of space required for a subwoofer and compatibility issues. Regarding DACs, you just have to decide by ear. If you think it's necessary, then buy.
I have a small room with furniture that does not allow a floor standing, that would be underutilized there with so little head space. It's near field listening I'm doing - 1.2 meters from speakers - and for that was evaluating monitor grear as well, initially, before landing to the very great AE500.
 
I have a small room with furniture that does not allow a floor standing, that would be underutilized there with so little head space. It's near field listening I'm doing - 1.2 meters from speakers - and for that was evaluating monitor grear as well, initially, before landing to the very great AE500.
then yes, a small subwoofer wouldn't hurt.
 
Back
Top