Using RoomFit with subwoofer

[remdmm]

I’m new to WIIM products and I’m trying to run RoomFit but need some clarification when it comes to my setup as I’ve seen contradictory information and want to make sure I do it correctly.

I have the WIIM Pro hooked to my powered speakers via the optical out and a powered subwoofer connected to the sub output on the speaker.

When running RoomFit, what do I set the subwoofer crossover and volume to?

Someone on another forum told me to set the sub volume at 50% and crossover to the maximum… would this be correct?

 

[harkpabst]

Hi and welcome @remdmm!

This generalised advice is wrong. First and foremost, in your setup RoomFit makes no difference regarding how to set up your subwoofer. RoomFit cannot tell if the low bass is coming from your speakers or your sub. Subwoofer integration is handled by your active speakers and your subwoofer, exclusively.

Some WiiM products do have a subwoofer output on their own (WiiM Ultra, WiiM Amp Ultra, WiiM Amp Pro and WiiM Amp). With these products the WiiM Home app is in control of the subwoofer level, the crossover frequency and the delay between speakers and sub. In this setup, music above the crossover frequency is blocked from the subwoofer and the subwoofer's own low pass filter should be a) disabled or b) switched to LFE or c) set to the highest possible frequency, if a) and b) are not possible. In this scenario, setting the sub volume knob to roughly 50% and then controlling the actual sub level through the WiiM Home App is a good idea. Also, frequencies routed to the subwoofer will be blocked from the speakers.

However, this is not how things work with your WiiM Pro.

You have to find a good subwoofer integration following the instructions given by the maker(s) of sub and speakers. If you tell us which products you have exactly we can come up with more specific help.

If in doubt, set the sub level rather a little higher than a little lower prior to running RoomFit. This gives RoomFit something "to play with" and keeps it from applying digital boost when not necessary. It will reduce any excess bass then.

 

[MCG555]

I’m new to WIIM products and I’m trying to run RoomFit but need some clarification when it comes to my setup as I’ve seen contradictory information and want to make sure I do it correctly.

I have the WIIM Pro hooked to my powered speakers via the optical out and a powered subwoofer connected to the sub output on the speaker.

When running RoomFit, what do I set the subwoofer crossover and volume to?

Someone on another forum told me to set the sub volume at 50% and crossover to the maximum… would this be correct?

This depends largely on your speakers. Usually the crossover frequency is between 45 and 80 Hz…

 

[remdmm]

Hi and welcome @remdmm!

This generalised advice is wrong. First and foremost, in your setup RoomFit makes no difference regarding how to set up your subwoofer. RoomFit cannot tell if the low bass is coming from your speakers or your sub. Subwoofer integration is handled by your active speakers and your subwoofer, exclusively.

Some WiiM products do have a subwoofer output on their own (WiiM Ultra, WiiM Amp Ultra, WiiM Amp Pro and WiiM Amp). With these products the WiiM Home app is in control of the subwoofer level, the crossover frequency and the delay between speakers and sub. In this setup, music above the crossover frequency is blocked from the subwoofer and the subwoofer's own low pass filter should be a) disabled or b) switched to LFE or c) set to the highest possible frequency, if a) and b) are not possible. In this scenario, setting the sub volume knob to roughly 50% and then controlling the actual sub level through the WiiM Home App is a good idea. Also, frequencies routed to the subwoofer will be blocked from the speakers.

However, this is not how things work with your WiiM Pro.

You have to find a good subwoofer integration following the instructions given by the maker(s) of sub and speakers. If you tell us which products you have exactly we can come up with more specific help.

If in doubt, set the sub level rather a little higher than a little lower prior to running RoomFit. This gives RoomFit something "to play with" and keeps it from applying digital boost when not necessary. It will reduce any excess bass then.

Thank you for the insight on the other WIIM products, I am actually thinking of picking up the WIIM Amp Ultra but just waiting to get some better speakers for our living room.

At the moment I am just using some second hand Audioengine HD6 speakers and their S8 sub.

 

[EddNog]

I’m new to WIIM products and I’m trying to run RoomFit but need some clarification when it comes to my setup as I’ve seen contradictory information and want to make sure I do it correctly.

I have the WIIM Pro hooked to my powered speakers via the optical out and a powered subwoofer connected to the sub output on the speaker.

When running RoomFit, what do I set the subwoofer crossover and volume to?

Someone on another forum told me to set the sub volume at 50% and crossover to the maximum… would this be correct?

I think there's some clarification needed.

The person in the other forum was trying to tell you to start with the volume dial on the sub at 50% and the crossover dial on the subwoofer set to the highest setting, because the WiiM has its own low-pass filter for the subwoofer/LFE output. They're not saying to set the crossover setting in the WiiM to the maximum value, that would completely befoul your sound. The correct crossover setting in the WiiM depends on a lot of factors, including how low your speakers naturally play down to before roll-off, how much/little distortion your speakers produce throughout the spectrum but specifically in the bass region, and also the placement of your subwoofer.

If your subwoofer is placed dead center between your speakers, you can, "get away," with a higher crossover setting without adversely affecting imaging, but if the sub is off-center, do not play with crossover settings above 80Hz, because your imaging will be destabilized. If your subwoofer has some sort of a bad room null at a certain frequency, you may need to let your speakers cover that range, so, for example, let's say your sub, due to room interaction/placement has a terrible null at 70Hz--well, you'll then want to set the crossover below that, like 60-65Hz, especially if your speakers are still playing pretty flat down to that frequency level.

The 50% volume setting for the sub is only for starters. As soon as you've got the crossover enabled and subwoofer is blended in, you should run a sweep or analysis to see how the volume level of the sub is in relation to that of your speakers (this is particularly easy to do if you have an iPhone or iPad thanks to a free app called HouseCurve, but I believe WiiMs also now have a valuation function that is part of RoomFit). Adjust the volume of the sub until it is roughly where it should be in relation to the speakers (raise the sub volume if the sound level below the crossover is lower than above, lower the sub volume if the sound level below the crossover is higher than the volume above it--they should be about level). There is a gain adjustment for the sub output in the WiiM, but that should really only be relied upon for fine adjustments or the odd cases where the sub's volume is either maxed our or min'd out and it's still not where it needs to be.

This is just the very basic advice I have for you. Subwoofer integration is an art in and of itself. Some people take weeks or months to get it just right. RoomFit will be very much your best friend for this process. You can rely on it to achieve smooth bass response by actually setting the subwoofer higher than it needs to be in relation to your speakers (to build headroom) and then using RoomFit to cut peaks and even out bass response.

-Ed

 

[harkpabst]

I think there's some clarification needed.

The person in the other forum was trying to tell you to start with the volume dial on the sub at 50% and the crossover dial on the subwoofer set to the highest setting, because the WiiM has its own low-pass filter for the subwoofer/LFE output. They're not saying to set the crossover setting in the WiiM to the maximum value, that would completely befoul your sound. The correct crossover setting in the WiiM depends on a lot of factors, including how low your speakers naturally play down to before roll-off, how much/little distortion your speakers produce throughout the spectrum but specifically in the bass region, and also the placement of your subwoofer.

If your subwoofer is placed dead center between your speakers, you can, "get away," with a higher crossover setting without adversely affecting imaging, but if the sub is off-center, do not play with crossover settings above 80Hz, because your imaging will be destabilized. If your subwoofer has some sort of a bad room null at a certain frequency, you may need to let your speakers cover that range, so, for example, let's say your sub, due to room interaction/placement has a terrible null at 70Hz--well, you'll then want to set the crossover below that, like 60-65Hz, especially if your speakers are still playing pretty flat down to that frequency level.

The 50% volume setting for the sub is only for starters. As soon as you've got the crossover enabled and subwoofer is blended in, you should run a sweep or analysis to see how the volume level of the sub is in relation to that of your speakers (this is particularly easy to do if you have an iPhone or iPad thanks to a free app called HouseCurve, but I believe WiiMs also now have a valuation function that is part of RoomFit). Adjust the volume of the sub until it is roughly where it should be in relation to the speakers (raise the sub volume if the sound level below the crossover is lower than above, lower the sub volume if the sound level below the crossover is higher than the volume above it--they should be about level). There is a gain adjustment for the sub output in the WiiM, but that should really only be relied upon for fine adjustments or the odd cases where the sub's volume is either maxed our or min'd out and it's still not where it needs to be.

This is just the very basic advice I have for you. Subwoofer integration is an art in and of itself. Some people take weeks or months to get it just right. RoomFit will be very much your best friend for this process. You can rely on it to achieve smooth bass response by actually setting the subwoofer higher than it needs to be in relation to your speakers (to build headroom) and then using RoomFit to cut peaks and even out bass response.

-Ed

No crossover settings in the WiiM Pro.

 

[EddNog]

No crossover settings in the WiiM Pro.

That's...

Most disappointing.

I guess I rest my case then.

-Ed

EDIT: I just saw this though:

...I am actually thinking of picking up the WIIM Amp Ultra...

 

[harkpabst]

At the moment I am just using some second hand Audioengine HD6 speakers and their S8 sub.

I see that the HD6 doesn't have a dedicated subwoofer output but just a general audio output. The S8 is responsible for its own low pass filtering (removing high frequencies) and the HD6 behave the same, no matter if used in combination with the S8 or not. I find it somewhat irritating that they don't provide any recommended settings for pairing the S8 with the HD6. I couldn't even find any information about the frequency range of the HD6 on their website.

As I said, all this is unrelated to the use of RoomFit. As of now you have to find a crossover and volume setting on the S8 that matches your room and taste. I would start at 50 Hz and increase the volume until you feel it's just not too much. Make sure to try both phase settings, 0° and 180° and go with the one that provides louder output. Next I would increase the crossover setting to the next mark and see if you can still find a comfortable level. Try both phase settings again. Repeat until increasing the crossover setting requires you to lower the volume or to the point where you cannot find a pleasing balance any more. If so, go one step back.

WiiM's subwoofer management may not be the best on the planet, but it is far above average and way better than what you get from your current speakers.

 

[Goodnews]

Ich denke, hier ist eine Klarstellung nötig.

Der Nutzer im anderen Forum wollte dir raten, den Lautstärkeregler am Subwoofer auf 50 % und den Frequenzweichenregler am Subwoofer auf die höchste Stufe zu stellen, da die Wii M einen eigenen Tiefpassfilter für den Subwoofer-/LFE-Ausgang besitzt. Er meint nicht, dass du die Frequenzweiche in der Wii M auf den Maximalwert einstellen sollst, denn das würde den Klang völlig verschlechtern. Die korrekte Frequenzweicheneinstellung in der Wii M hängt von vielen Faktoren ab, unter anderem davon, wie tief deine Lautsprecher von Natur aus spielen, bevor der Frequenzgang abfällt, wie stark deine Lautsprecher im gesamten Frequenzspektrum, insbesondere im Bassbereich, verzerren und auch von der Position deines Subwoofers.

Wenn Ihr Subwoofer genau zwischen Ihren Lautsprechern platziert ist, können Sie eine höhere Übergangsfrequenz einstellen, ohne die Klangabbildung negativ zu beeinflussen. Befindet sich der Subwoofer jedoch nicht mittig, sollten Sie Übergangsfrequenzen über 80 Hz vermeiden, da dies die Klangabbildung beeinträchtigt. Falls Ihr Subwoofer bei einer bestimmten Frequenz eine starke Raumauslöschung aufweist, sollten Ihre Lautsprecher diesen Bereich abdecken. Angenommen, Ihr Subwoofer hat aufgrund der Raumakustik oder seiner Positionierung eine starke Auslöschung bei 70 Hz – dann sollten Sie die Übergangsfrequenz darunter, beispielsweise auf 60–65 Hz, einstellen, insbesondere wenn Ihr Lautsprecher bis zu diesem Frequenzbereich noch einen relativ linearen Frequenzgang aufweist.

Die 50%-Einstellung für den Subwoofer ist nur für den Anfang. Sobald die Frequenzweiche aktiviert und der Subwoofer eingebunden ist, sollten Sie einen Frequenzgangtest durchführen, um das Verhältnis der Subwoofer-Lautstärke zu Ihrem Lautsprecher zu überprüfen (dies ist besonders einfach mit einem iPhone oder iPad dank der kostenlosen App HouseCurve; WiiMs verfügen meines Wissens ebenfalls über eine Bewertungsfunktion im Rahmen von RoomFit). Passen Sie die Subwoofer-Lautstärke so an, dass sie ungefähr dem gewünschten Verhältnis zu den Lautsprechern entspricht (erhöhen Sie die Subwoofer-Lautstärke, wenn der Schallpegel unterhalb der Frequenzweiche niedriger ist als darüber; verringern Sie sie, wenn der Schallpegel unterhalb der Frequenzweiche höher ist als darüber – der Pegel sollte ungefähr gleich sein). Die WiiM bietet zwar eine Verstärkungsregelung für den Subwoofer-Ausgang, diese sollte aber nur für Feineinstellungen oder in Ausnahmefällen verwendet werden, wenn die Subwoofer-Lautstärke maximal oder minimal eingestellt ist und immer noch nicht optimal ist.

Dies ist nur ein ganz grundlegender Tipp von mir. Die Integration eines Subwoofers ist eine Kunst für sich. Manche Wochen oder Monate brauchen, um das optimale Ergebnis zu erzielen. RoomFit ist dabei eine große Hilfe. Mit RoomFit erreichen Sie eine gleichmäßige Basswiedergabe, indem Sie den Subwoofer im Verhältnis zu Ihren Lautsprechern höher positionieren, als er eigentlich sein müsste (um mehr Headroom zu schaffen), und anschließend die Bassspitzen absenken und den Bassbereich ausgleichen.

-Ed

A frequently occurring situation is that the amplifiers have different input sensitivities, which can make the level adjustment of the output signal critical.

In the case of the Wiim Amp Ultra, this means that the output for the mono amplifiers of the bass housing is too quiet.

Another suggestion is to switch off the bass speaker via the crossover frequency of the main speakers (64 Hz).

Since the Wiim output is in mono, this bypass solution is counterproductive, especially if there is only one subwoofer in the centre.

Especially for "calm" listeners

 

[harkpabst]

Eine häufig auftretende Situation ist, dass die Verstärker unterschiedliche Eingangsempfindlichkeiten aufweisen, was die Pegelanpassung des Ausgangssignals kritisch machen kann.

Im Falle des Wiim Amp Ultra bedeutet dies, dass der Ausgang für die Mono-Verstärker des Bassgehäuses zu leise ist.

Ein weiterer Vorschlag ist, den Basslautsprecher über die Übergangsfrequenz der Hauptlautsprecher (64 Hz) abzuschalten.

Da der Wiim-Ausgang in Mono ist, ist diese Umgehungslösung kontraproduktiv, insbesondere wenn sich nur ein Subwoofer in der Mitte befindet.

insbesondere für „ruhige“ Zuhörer

Please make sure to post in English so the good news reaches every reader easily and without everyone having to use an online translator.

Regarding the contents I don't get your recommendation. We are talking the WiiM Pro here, so there's no bass management provided by WiiM. It's all down to the settings of the sub. Since the sub is directly connected to the output of the active speakers and the WiiM Pro is the only source (as far as I understood it) there's no issue with different input sensitivity.

 

[EddNog]

Please make sure to Post in English so the good news reaches every reader easily and without everyone having to use an online translator.

Regarding the contents I don't get your recommendation. We are talking the WiiM Pro here, so there's no bass management provided by WiiM. It's all down to the settings of the sub. Since the sub is directly connected to the output of the active speakers and the WiiM Pro is the only source (as far as I understood it) there's no issue with different input sensitivity.

I think many of us are crossing our fingers that the OP does upgrade to Amp Ultra as he said he might do.

-Ed

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Please make sure to Post in English so the good news reaches every reader easily and without everyone having to use an online translator.

Regarding the contents I don't get your recommendation. We are talking the WiiM Pro here, so there's no bass management provided by WiiM. It's all down to the settings of the sub. Since the sub is directly connected to the output of the active speakers and the WiiM Pro is the only source (as far as I understood it) there's no issue with different input sensitivity.

I have just translated his post for the second time.

 

[Goodnews]

Ich habe seinen Beitrag soeben zum zweiten Mal übersetzt.

Sorry, I don't speak English and all communication runs through a translation app. I insert the translated text here, so it appears in German. I don't know why.

 

[EddNog]

I mean…English is my third language, but I make it work just fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

 

[Goodnews]

I mean…English is my third language, but I make it work just fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

Good for them.

 

[Goodnews]

Using RoomFit with subwoofer​

The topic of this thread

is software, which presents me with a problem I have never had before.

My main speakers (98 dB) are powered by the Wiim Amp Ultra, and the 18" subwoofers should actually be powered via the sub output.

Unfortunately, due to the 64 Hz crossover frequency of the subwoofers, the sub output of the Wiim is too quiet when you want to listen at a low volume, and my monos Amp don't kick in.

If I accept the suggestion to select more headroom for the sub by choosing a higher crossover frequency, I don't need an HPF for the main speakers (dipoles, which go down to 70 Hz due to their design).

As a reminder, the Wiim output is mono and above 80 Hz it is simply a disaster.

 

[Wiimer]

Sorry, I don't speak English and all communication runs through a translation app. I insert the translated text here, so it appears in German. I don't know why.

If you post English text on the German-language page, it may be posted in German. Please post your English text while this forum is displayed in English using Chrome's automatic translation.
(I also use a translation app )

 

[Goodnews]

If you post English text on the German-language page, it may be posted in German. Please post your English text while this forum is displayed in English using Chrome's automatic translation.
(I also use a translation app )

I now have two browsers open simultaneously:

Safari in English and Google Chrome in German.

It may be that the Wiim Syszem is not suitable for my specifications and that I have made a bad purchase.

 

[Wiimer]

Using RoomFit with subwoofer​

The topic of this thread

is software, which presents me with a problem I have never had before.

My main speakers (98 dB) are powered by the Wiim Amp Ultra, and the 18" subwoofers should actually be powered via the sub output.

Unfortunately, due to the 64 Hz crossover frequency of the subwoofers, the sub output of the Wiim is too quiet when you want to listen at a low volume, and my monos Amp don't kick in.

If I accept the suggestion to select more headroom for the sub by choosing a higher crossover frequency, I don't need an HPF for the main speakers (dipoles, which go down to 70 Hz due to their design).

As a reminder, the Wiim output is mono and above 80 Hz it is simply a disaster.

I'm not sure if I've understood your issue correctly, but are you saying the subwoofer output volume on the Amp Ultra is insufficient?

If so, please try increasing the subwoofer volume in the WiiM app's subwoofer settings.

 

[slartibartfast]

Using RoomFit with subwoofer​

The topic of this thread

is software, which presents me with a problem I have never had before.

My main speakers (98 dB) are powered by the Wiim Amp Ultra, and the 18" subwoofers should actually be powered via the sub output.

Unfortunately, due to the 64 Hz crossover frequency of the subwoofers, the sub output of the Wiim is too quiet when you want to listen at a low volume, and my monos Amp don't kick in.

If I accept the suggestion to select more headroom for the sub by choosing a higher crossover frequency, I don't need an HPF for the main speakers (dipoles, which go down to 70 Hz due to their design).

As a reminder, the Wiim output is mono and above 80 Hz it is simply a disaster.

What are these 18" subwoofers of which you speak?