What products you'd like to see WiiM produce?

[Maurizio]

I would agree that Audiophile is mostly a bad name and I would not see myself as one. And I believe Wiim are not aiming their products at "Audiophiles" but at people who appreciate a good quality product with features like bit-perfect Optical output and a fully functional constantly improving mobile app. I think the key differences are being objective (and pragmatic) - objective in that people should understand that an digital stream selected in the App and then streamed to an external DAC is as good as it gets (no audiophile cables needed) and pragmatic in that sometimes a product at a particular price point needs "good enough" pragmatic features also, i.e. the current DAC is good enough for lots of people to just try the Wiim Mini (and Pro) and then they can decide if they need a better DAC.

So for me the Pro+ is a good product as some people will be only starting out on the "audio" journey and haven't yet invest in a DAC and possible the built in DAC in the Pro+ will be all they need.

Then a future product beyond the Pro+ could go a few different ways:
1. Stripped down (no DAC) but with higher quality internal components (maybe a "Wiim Mini +" ) - I personally don't think this would be a good product. It only going to appeal to people who have lots of separate audio products already and most of them either have a Wiim already or have alternative streamers because they like to buy lots of audio products.
2. Digital Home "Connected product" e.g. something with HDMI Arc + SubWoofer - maybe this would be a new "product line" that would eventually includes Dolby Atmos support - this is for people who have a nice living room setup and want something better than a soundbar so some nice speakers (and a subwoofer) - this Wiim get digital audio from TV (as well as streaming services) and feeds an amplifier like a Fosi Audio V3 - maybe with a PEQ based filter (if a subwoofer is connected) so the amp / speakers do not need to worry about low frequencies.
But I would see this product use the HDMI connection to the TV when streaming to display album art etc.
3. Mid-Fi Steamer - this is where I think the next Wiim Pro+ should go and this would include a screen (that optionally can be turned off) to show the track name / album art / Codec / bitrate etc This is for someone who just wants a streamer for audio has nice speakers and occasionally wants to check what is playing by glancing at the display on the Wiim Pro Vision+

All these paths are valid - I imagine the question for the Wiim team is which is the most profitable (or whether it's worth chasing multiple product lines) going forward.

@jeromeof
Agreed. Welcome aboard

 

[steadyshot]

Nothing wrong with audiophile status. It is a nice hobby and most probably a need for some people not simply hobby. We chase and appreciate the experience that a good sound system gives . It is not just about the music . Let’s all be real . We need value for money gear that is targeted on sound quality .

I simply don’t like listening to music from a low quality source at all…

 

[canard]

That's why I couldn't find a relationship with mine probably

the usb "will" be on..sure..

but I gave up the idea of understanding that some are pushing wiim, a very mainstream brand without audio notoriety, towards the ultra niche audiophile product ( and clearly not comfortable with this subject,not their "culture" ), very closed, keeping only the usb, removing the rest, see the dac, etc...(the saving of a few tens of dollars when leaving the Chinese chains?)


(especially since a brand that does not produce DAC like others company etc.)

;-))
funny that no body reacted to me on a mini "mk2"...yet could be a real subject...

 

[jack]

If WiiM makes a streamer that focuses on the AK4493SEQ chip and purely analog output, I wonder whether that can lead to superior internal DAC sound quality.

All the current devices have both digital input/output as well as analog input/output. The design has to accommodate all the signal paths. Creating a purely analog out device can simplify this design.

For example, there would be no need for an ADC. The analog input does not need to be digitized just to be reconverted back to analog later. The output stage only needs to consider analog output, with a good analog volume control. There is no need to implement both a digital volume control and an analog volume control.

The benefits are:
* simpler design with simpler audio path
* improved analog input sound quality
* high quality analog volume control
* fewer components (no ADC, no optical out)
* smaller footprint, no need for an external DAC

Because there are fewer components with simpler design, consumers can benefit pricewise as well. I can see this device costing similarly as WiiM Pro (without the plus).

 

[onlyoneme]

And we would loose (P)EQ for the analog input when it's just bypassed.

Some people want the device to be as analog as possible, some others want a one as digital as possible. Linkplay will make a good work to continue with mixing the analog domain and the digital one

 

[jack]

And we would loose (P)EQ for the analog input when it's just bypassed.

Yes, that would be the drawback.

 

[SiR]

If WiiM makes a streamer that focuses on the AK4493SEQ chip and purely analog output, I wonder whether that can lead to superior internal DAC sound quality.

All the current devices have both digital input/output as well as analog input/output. The design has to accommodate all the signal paths. Creating a purely analog out device can simplify this design.

For example, there would be no need for an ADC. The analog input does not need to be digitized just to be reconverted back to analog later. The output stage only needs to consider analog output, with a good analog volume control. There is no need to implement both a digital volume control and an analog volume control.

The benefits are:
* simpler design with simpler audio path
* improved analog input sound quality
* high quality analog volume control
* fewer components (no ADC, no optical out)
* smaller footprint, no need for an external DAC

Because there are fewer components with simpler design, consumers can benefit pricewise as well. I can see this device costing similarly as WiiM Pro (without the plus).

Jack, u r spot on and was about to reflect the above

 

[jack]

Yes, that would be the drawback.

I was going to add that a significant number of users would never use PEQ due to the amount of work it requires. The audience of this particular product is also unlikely to use it. However, I guess they might still use the regular EQ.

 

[onlyoneme]

Do you know the example of a streamer with bypassed analog input?

 

[jack]

Jack, u r spot on and was about to reflect the above

Cool, I am glad to meet like minds

 

[jack]

Do you know the example of a streamer with bypassed analog input?

I am not suggesting bypassed analog input, but an analog input that does not go through ADC.

It's possible the Arylic S10 does that, but I don't have inside information though. It's actually a very well designed product, but sadly uses an older Linkplay module.

 

[D1N0]

It is a streamer, net a pre-amp. The analog input is there for convenience. But if WIIM were to make a more comprehensive device it's worth too look at these new Cirrus ADC's https://www.cirrus.com/company/medi...c-delivers-true-transparent-audio-experience/

 

[onlyoneme]

I am not suggesting bypassed analog input, but an analog input that does not go through ADC.

It's possible the Arylic S10 does that, but I don't have inside information though. It's actually a very well designed product, but sadly uses an older Linkplay module.

That's what I've meant - bypassing AD conversion and going straight to the analog output. Sorry for my English.
I'm not sure I've ever seen such a streamer.

 

[Brantome]

I am not suggesting bypassed analog input, but an analog input that does not go through ADC.

It's possible the Arylic S10 does that, but I don't have inside information though. It's actually a very well designed product, but sadly uses an older Linkplay module.

If the analogue input didn’t go thru ADC, surely that would cripple multiroom and airplay/Sonos casting?

 

[Brantome]

* fewer components (no ADC, no optical out)

Many prefer optical out, why exclude it? Sounds like you want a pretty niche product and I don’t see that as WiiM/Linkplay’s current market focus.

 

[jack]

Many prefer optical out, why exclude it? Sounds like you want a pretty niche product and I don’t see that as WiiM/Linkplay’s current market focus.

For those that prefer optical out, WiiM Pro has already achieved the need.

But there is also a significant market for good analog out. That's why people are interested in WiiM Pro+, and also why some people says WiiM Pro+ is what they expected WiiM Pro to be.

If I already have a good external DAC that I am trying to utilize, it's unlikely I will be using WiiM's internal DAC (which is exactly the case, I've never used the analog output of my WiiM Pro other than for testing it). WiiM Pro+'s AK4493 would just be wasted.

The other day I was trying to install a streaming system for kid's bedroom, and here I didn't want to have an external DAC because that's more components to attract kid's attention. Here, minimalistic and lightweight would be preferred as well. I ended up using Chromecast Audio.

 

[SiR]

For those that prefer optical out, WiiM Pro has already achieved the need.

But there is also a significant market for good analog out. That's why people are interested in WiiM Pro+, and also why some people says WiiM Pro+ is what they expected WiiM Pro to be.

If I already have a good external DAC that I am trying to utilize, it's unlikely I will be using WiiM's internal DAC (which is exactly the case, I've never used the analog output of my WiiM Pro other than for testing it). WiiM Pro+'s AK4493 would just be wasted.

The other day I was trying to install a streaming system for kid's bedroom, and here I didn't want to have an external DAC because that's more components to attract kid's attention. Here, minimalistic and lightweight would be preferred as well. I ended up using Chromecast Audio.

 

[WiiM Support]

Hi Team,

We are excited to announce the upcoming WiiM Pro Plus, designed with a focus on significantly enhancing audio quality, reducing total system cost, and simplifying system setup compared to the current WiiM Pro.

Our ambition is to create a product that meets the needs of 90% of WiiM streamer users, eliminating the need for an external DAC. Here's a quick overview of the value propositions that WiiM Pro Plus brings to the table:

1. Simplified System: Connect directly to your amplifier or powered speaker, no external DAC required.
2. Superior Audio Quality: Comparable to a WiiM Pro connected to an external DAC (up to $500 in price).
3. Cost-Effective: Save on the costs of an external DAC and cables.
4. Enhanced Analog Input Quality: Improved audio quality for analog input sources such as TVs, record players, or MP3 players.
5. Compatibility Solutions: Resolves issues with certain low-end DACs that struggle with clock handling, variable sample rate/bit depth, or don't support up to 24-bit/192kHz digital input.

We hope these enhancements align with your expectations and needs. We welcome your feedback and comments on these upcoming features. Thank you for your continued support!

 

[Wiimer]

Hi Team,

We are excited to announce the upcoming WiiM Pro Plus, designed with a focus on significantly enhancing audio quality, reducing total system cost, and simplifying system setup compared to the current WiiM Pro.

Our ambition is to create a product that meets the needs of 90% of WiiM streamer users, eliminating the need for an external DAC. Here's a quick overview of the value propositions that WiiM Pro Plus brings to the table:

1. Simplified System: Connect directly to your amplifier or powered speaker, no external DAC required.
2. Superior Audio Quality: Comparable to a WiiM Pro connected to an external DAC (up to $500 in price).
3. Cost-Effective: Save on the costs of an external DAC and cables.
4. Enhanced Analog Input Quality: Improved audio quality for analog input sources such as TVs, record players, or MP3 players.
5. Compatibility Solutions: Resolves issues with certain low-end DACs that struggle with clock handling, variable sample rate/bit depth, or don't support up to 24-bit/192kHz digital input.

We hope these enhancements align with your expectations and needs. We welcome your feedback and comments on these upcoming features. Thank you for your continued support!

I think the fifth point is very important.

Pro+ will also discover potential customers who don't yet own DACs. The number of its customers is overwhelmingly higher than that of those who own DACs (and Pro owners). For example, if people who are streaming with wireless earbuds decide to get started with home audio, Pro+ is the best choice.

 

[steadyshot]

I would argue it will have a better dac than the internal of integrateds around 1000 euro