What products you'd like to see WiiM produce?

[onlyoneme]

Does this all come back to those who claim their WiiM device’s digital outputs sound better (I.e. more musical etc) with linear power supplies? I think I’m in the camp that would say how can it possibly sound different?

Fortunately, there's something between "it's just digital" and "LPS always improves sound quality"

 

[onlyoneme]

Wouldn’t that improper data retrieval manifest itself as audible clicks and pops rather than a change in musicality?

I didn't mention a change in musicality. I don't even know how to define it.
But I think clicks or pops are something unwanted which degrades SQ.

 

[d6jg]

I didn't mention a change in musicality. I don't even know how to define it.
But I think clicks or pops are something unwanted which degrades SQ.

Where exactly is the “analogue carrier”?

 

[onlyoneme]

Where exactly is the “analogue carrier”?

It can be electricity in circuits or cables.

 

[d6jg]

It can be electricity in circuits or cables.

I’d agree that power can have an affect on anything analogue in interference terms but it can’t in the digital arena. ANY issue would create a loss of data - the stream would stop. Digital is absolute. 1 or 0. Or nothing,

 

[onlyoneme]

ANY issue would create a loss of data - the stream would stop.

Why? It's a decision of the receiver what to do when transmission error happened, for example.

Digital is absolute. 1 or 0. Or nothing,

But a transmission is still vulnerable to noise or distortions which can affect the way how digital data is retrieved in terms of the correctness.

 

[d6jg]

Why? It's a decision of the receiver what to do when transmission error happened, for example.

But a transmission is still vulnerable to noise or distortions which can affect the way how digital data is retrieved in terms of the correctness.

Yes but if there was interference the stream would stop or cause major audio interruptions while corrective measures are applied yet bizarrely a low grade iPhone charger powering my WiiM Mini or one of my Pi’s doesn’t seem to ever cause any issues that I can hear.

I know you are interested in taking measurements but aren’t those always in the analogue arena? What can you measure while the signal is still digital? Serious question.

 

[dudu]

Fortunately, there's something between "it's just digital" and "LPS always improves sound quality"

And unfortunately I don't have a direct wire for each component in my audio chain to the powerplant producing my electricity. So there is a possibility that devices powered by electricity change what comes out of my speakers.

 

[d6jg]

PS If a Word document was corrupted with a 0 when it should have been a 1 the chances are it wouldn’t be readable at all.

 

[onlyoneme]

Let's talk about jitter A high one can affect the reconstructed waveform when not handled successfully due to timing deviations. A source device clock is one of the jitter sources for protocols like spdif. Clock circuits can be sensitive to PSU quality when PSRR is low.

 

[onlyoneme]

PS If a Word document was corrupted with a 0 when it should have been a 1 the chances are it wouldn’t be readable at all.

It's a matter of the data format. What about a raw pcm data, would you detect an error here also?

 

[onlyoneme]

Yes but if there was interference the stream would stop or cause major audio interruptions while corrective measures are applied yet bizarrely a low grade iPhone charger powering my WiiM Mini or one of my Pi’s doesn’t seem to ever cause any issues that I can hear.

A DAC can just decide to repeat a last good sample when transmission error occur.
Take a low quality PSU, low quality cables of the length close to the limits, low quality device design etc etc, and the risk will grow.

 

[onlyoneme]

I know you are interested in taking measurements but aren’t those always in the analogue arena? What can you measure while the signal is still digital? Serious question.

Not sure what you mean. An analog domain is usually being measured after AD conversion, so it's a digital representation of something analog. It's the same in the digital domain.

 

[dudu]

PS If a Word document was corrupted with a 0 when it should have been a 1 the chances are it wouldn’t be readable at all.

But there is also a chance that multiple of your mentioned errors result in Word showing you wrong content. Depends on error detection and error correction methods applied ...

 

[d6jg]

Any digital audio stream is ultimately delivered as PCM surely? If you were to interrupt that stream there are correction algorithms in play - I didn’t get that so please send it again - but if the steam packets can’t be resent or aren’t delivered in the correct order then the stream will fail. Do we see (hear) that in normal situations with a non linear power supply? Not in my experience.

If you move into the analogue area of the signal path then yes of course a poor power supply can have an affect. The whole of the amplification process relies on manipulation of analogue signals.

 

[onlyoneme]

But there is also a chance that multiple of your mentioned errors result in Word showing you wrong content. Depends on error detection and error correction methods applied ...

And there are no error correction methods in the isochronous audio stream.

 

[onlyoneme]

Any digital audio stream is ultimately delivered as PCM surely? If you were to interrupt that stream there are correction algorithms in play - I didn’t get that so please send it again - but if the steam packets can’t be resent or aren’t delivered in the correct order then the stream will fail. Do we see (hear) that in normal situations with a non linear power supply? Not in my experience.

If you move into the analogue area of the signal path then yes of course a poor power supply can have an affect. The whole of the amplification process relies on manipulation of analogue signals.

The entire discussion is about the possibility, not probability.
There is no resend scenario in case of the audio stream going to the DAC.

 

[d6jg]

The entire discussion is about the possibility, not probability.
There is no resend scenario in case of the audio stream going to the DAC.

I’ll accept you know more in that area but the reality is, in my experience, that subject to a competent degree of manufacture, the apparent quality of the power supply makes zero difference to the digital signal delivered to an external DAC.
On that note it is past the retiring hour this side of the pond so I shall bid you a good night.

 

[onlyoneme]

If you move into the analogue area of the signal path then yes of course a poor power supply can have an affect. The whole of the amplification process relies on manipulation of analogue signals.

So it can affect the digital data as it's being interpreted as some analog amplitude levels within the expected range.

 

[dudu]

Any digital audio stream is ultimately delivered as PCM surely? If you were to interrupt that stream there are correction algorithms in play - I didn’t get that so please send it again - but if the steam packets can’t be resent or aren’t delivered in the correct order then the stream will fail. Do we see (hear) that in normal situations with a non linear power supply? Not in my experience.

If you move into the analogue area of the signal path then yes of course a poor power supply can have an affect. The whole of the amplification process relies on manipulation of analogue signals.

If you want to enjoy (hear) music you end up in the analog domain i think.
If you want measure (modern) audio gear maybe you can stay in the digital domain ...