Why do CD Transports cost so much?

[Brantome]

because most audiophile transports are scams? they claim to be more precise etc but are no better than a cheap dvd/bluray. even if they had better signal its not a problem connected to a simple modern dac.

pro-ject earlier even claimed most cdplayers cant read more than 10bits:

Some "interesting" claims by Pro-Ject re: their new CD transport box...

Actual Redbook CD players have gotten rare, real high-end mechanisms aren‘t even existing anymore. Today, we know that the drive is essential for reading all the 16 bits out of a CD and most CD players have never seen more than 10 bits. The CD medium might have gotten an unfavorable reputation...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If you read that thread there are lots of comments along the lines of “I can only imagine such nonsense was made up by someone who really has no idea how CD works, it's impressively divorced from reality.”

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

There’s an easy way to test. Buy two cheap transports from different manufacturers and do a controlled, double blind test.

If the transports are full of errors, but different errors due to being from different manufacturers, they should sound very different, too.

If they don’t, there’s your answer.

 

[wiimamp user]

What are you,re thought about this Video?

 

[wiimamp user]

If this question was for me.
Not a single one of all this profile neurotic experts and affiliating influencers gets to my screen ;-)

 

[wiimamp user]

What i think..
When i watch some video,s of people trying to convince me why cd,s are 'important, of still worth it they can,t convince me.
Don,t get me wrong i have lots of cd,s in my home. I also bought recently a cd of a artist that i like.

One thing that can convince me is that i support the artist more than i stream an album of this artist. But i also would be willing to support my favorite artist if they provided me a download in high res quality. Lets say with maybe more qualtiy than a cd(24 bit)

If its about the booklets, lyrics_one of the argument for still buying cd,s_ it can be downloaded too, and if wanted printed yourself. Yes some cd,s have wonderful booklets.., the case itself cant be reproduced in all cases with an printer but havent we all stored these cd,s somewhere and how often do we look in the booklets?

Wy arent the artist not thinking more about limited editions? Let say do more about the artwork( booklet,case..) and make just only 5000 copies of it? Also provide the high res download..

Another argument is they can sound better than streaming..but if a streaming service provide cd quality of even better how is it possible?
Cant imagine it is. And if it is you will have to buy an 'expensive'cd player again for reproducing the sound at is best.
Then again there is that discussion with connecting a relatively cheap cd player to a dac with the optical input. The dac in the cd player does,nt count anymore..

There also an argument that is a private experience. They cant see what you are playing. With streaming its all monitored.Sorry no valid argument for me, because what about being private on you,re pc,smartphone,walking out the door( cameras), banking...where is you,re privacy here?
Or buying the cd itself with you,re bank account. on the internet..

I still hear the same arguments lately on you tube why Blu ray disks are so good comparing it to streaming services. Of course there is a difference here because a BR can produce bitrates( VBR) of 100 Mbps and more. I can undestand this..

But still they are all forgetting that a BR disc of a CD can be ripped to a hard drive. There you have it. Its data stored on a disk. . Lets not forget you can use this for yourself for backing up you,re discs but nobody talk about the fact people download them illegaly.

Yes it illegal.. but that does,nt mean it isn,t happening any more. Because thats the other thing about it all..data can be stored in quality simular to the CD, DVD, Blu ray and it can be used for sharing.
Yes CD where are shared too_ for instance with friends,family_, but now thats on another level with the internet.

I still want to pay... but thinking about phyical media i would appreciate it the industry provided me the data in high quality so i can download it to a HDD. For a decent price. I want to support the artist..

Why can spotify or an artist not provide me a download in high res quality? Yes.. its a streaming service but if there is a demand for higher quality it could be provided through a download. Or on the website of an artist itself.
Yes it can all be used for illegal purposes but thats happing with physical media too.
Think about e books..lots of things making it more difficult for costumers( DRM) but they cant avoid it being shared. And the BR discs are still being ripped to a HDD still when the industry do want to avoid it. Its a divide and rule game but nothing more.
Again dont get me wrong, i am not supporting any illegal activity but i just want to say its happening it would be naive to say it isn,t.
I think if you still provide physical media why arent they thinking about limited editions? As i said before...

Ok vinyl is unique but that a total other discussion because then i have to have a good vinyl player and the way i see this it will cost me lots of money for listening to vinyl when i want a premium sound of this vinyl records.

 

[SWM]

If you read that thread there are lots of comments along the lines of “I can only imagine such nonsense was made up by someone who really has no idea how CD works, it's impressively divorced from reality.”

The same paragraph was subsequently reworded and now reads "Actual Redbook CD players have gotten rare, real high-end mechanisms aren‘t even existing anymore. Today, we know that the drive is essential for accurately reading CDs. The mechanics in many drives struggle to correctly read CDs and rely on audio interpolation to make it work, that often has a negativ impacting on the sound quality. The CD medium might have gotten an unfavorable reputation as a result, which is why it is time to create a perfect, top-class CD transport again."

It looks like someone at Pro-Ject found the lost 6 bits. 101101

 

[wiimamp user]

The most of what you wrote I would sign.
But there are others which think they found the only truth and want to educate others who do not ask for that. And very often they mention things they never owned but read about.
I am happy with my devices. Even if Pro-Ject is the company what found the missing bits ;-)

I can understand what you mean.

 

[Nikita]

IMO you are paying extra $$$ for the design of the housing. Internally it’s most likely the same OEM parts made by some mega manufacturer in Asia. There is nothing wrong with that. Aesthetics matters almost as much as the sound.

 

[cooky560]

Honestly just buy a used CD player that has a digital output, it'll almost certainly be fine and a lot cheaper.

 

[EJasonC]

In my experience, a high quality CD Transport, not necessarily expensive one, can make a significant difference in sound quality. The key is in the chain; namely, Transport, Clock, DAC. Personally, I use a Pro Audio CD Transport that has I/O for Clock, AES/EBU, Coax, Optical, XLR Analogue and more. It also has its own DAC and so comparing is quite revealing! To be fair and because of its Pro Audio pedigree, I configure my preamp to attenuate to Consumer Grade line level to compare with sources such as the WiiM.
In practically all cases, feeding my CD Transport into any one of my DACs including the WiiM almost always sounds better than any other digital source. Those sources include streaming from PC/USB, HDD, wireless to name a few. As to why that is, I am at a loss. After all, digital is digital; or is it?! In real world use, for whatever reason, Redbook CD in pure two channel stereo, properly configured as mentioned above, rivals just about anything I have heard. A three dimensional sound stage with wide and deep imaging and depth is just astonishing to experience. The only other medium that may sometimes rival an excellent digital rig is, yes you guessed it, vinyl record playback. However, that kind of rig also has to be properly configured to yield similar astonishing results. But it is achievable, albeit probably with bit more expense!

 

[Doublej]

In my experience, a high quality CD Transport, not necessarily expensive one, can make a significant difference in sound quality. The key is in the chain; namely, Transport, Clock, DAC. Personally, I use a Pro Audio CD Transport that has I/O for Clock, AES/EBU, Coax, Optical, XLR Analogue and more. It also has its own DAC and so comparing is quite revealing! To be fair and because of its Pro Audio pedigree, I configure my preamp to attenuate to Consumer Grade line level to compare with sources such as the WiiM.
In practically all cases, feeding my CD Transport into any one of my DACs including the WiiM almost always sounds better than any other digital source. Those sources include streaming from PC/USB, HDD, wireless to name a few. As to why that is, I am at a loss. After all, digital is digital; or is it?! In real world use, for whatever reason, Redbook CD in pure two channel stereo, properly configured as mentioned above, rivals just about anything I have heard. A three dimensional sound stage with wide and deep imaging and depth is just astonishing to experience. The only other medium that may sometimes rival an excellent digital rig is, yes you guessed it, vinyl record playback. However, that kind of rig also has to be properly configured to yield similar astonishing results. But it is achievable, albeit probably with bit more expense!

What do you recommend for a high quality inexpensive CD transport?

 

[EJasonC]

What do you recommend for a high quality inexpensive CD transport?

If you can get your hands on one, this has performed flawlessly for me:
TASCAM CD-RW901MKII

 

[eByGum]

I posed the same question recently (to myself) as they all seemed so expensive for what they are. Cambridge Audio seemed cheapest of known brands. I don't believe all Youtubers are biased and saying the right thing for kickbacks...some of them will be pretty straight I'm sure and multiple of them suggested there are differences and cheapo players will disappoint.
I assumed the only answer to the high cost question is "cos they can".
I ended up finding a Brennan Helix on Amazon for 209 bucks that suits my budget and only occasional need for a CD player. Brennan are a specialist UK outfit that I believe makes quality devices. They are selling these off cheap as there was a manufacturing error that made 3.5 jack output mono. I use optical out to the WiiM though so everything ok for my use. Sounds good to my ears, actually better than expected.

 

[Doublej]

Fosi Audio has a CD player in process. I expect it will be much less expensive than the mega dollar transports.

 

[wiimamp user]

But if you want to use the dac of the cd player you will have to use analog in?

Because..when you spend lets say 500 Euros i think you want to use the dac in the cd player and can that be better then the dac of a amp? Because when you use the optical in the dac of the cd player gets bypassed.

Yes its about clock,dac,jitter,transport and so on but i think we may not forget that the disc itself is only storing data isnt it?

So where is the difference when ripping a cd, blu ray to a hard drive? If one says there is a difference you could also say the playback from a 'expensive, blu ray player can produce a better picture then playing the same data( from the disc) from a hard drive with _ lets say_ the Nvidea Shield..

How can there be a difference? If you compare i think you must listen to the same music, master.. dont you think? I mean when listening to the cd or playing it from a HDD. So that you ripped the cd in high quality on a hard drive, usb stick.
Im no expert on this maybe it is better but its good to have a discussion on this i think..maybe to agree to disagree but with having respect for each opinions. Again i dont have a good cd player..im no expert and dont have the opportunity to compare a properly ripped cd with a good cd player.
So who am i to say it isnt better.. but a decent discussion on the subject is a good thing i think. The essential question is: Is a cd,br player better then when playing the data stored on a disc( Film,audio) _ripped properly without data loss_ transfered a hard drive , and playing it on a very good mediaplayer(Nvidea Shield for instance) or DAC, AMP( audio).

Ripping of audio needs to be done properly for instance with EAC. I someone hasn,t ripped the data properly you cant compare it i would say. It has to be ripped accurately that obvious i think. 'Excact Uccurate rip' has to be in use when choosing EAC.

That why i say..illegal downloading is still in place its naive to think its not. I want to pay and support the artists.
Why not offering downloads in high quality in stead of the physical media. Yes illegal downloading is still there but it always has been and still a BR or CD can be ripped and ripped properly without loss of quality.

If they would provide good quality with payed downloading with the artist booklets and so on ..i would pay for it. Maybe _ if possible_ i a better quality then a cd could provide. Yes a cd is a sweet spot but if you can provide , better, why not providing the best as possible.
Its to simple you wont hear a difference..that my personal opinion.

I would never download but pay and support...how could you pull in the younger generation with physical media? I think you could pull them in...and some will pay for good hardware acchieving excellent sound. But staying with physical media i think its a problem..

 

[ChrisHamilton]

I just picked up a Meridian 500 CD transport for 150. That said it was 1000 back in the day and the quality of the transport is impressive. It also weighs a good 15 lbs so a lot goes into isolation, transport stability and an improved power supply and clock. So it’s a relatively expensive from an engineering and parts perspective.

 

[Nikita]

I was always wandering what makes a “better“ clock in terms of CD transports/players

The accuracy of digital clock is measured in ppm which corresponds to crystal’s frequency deviation from nominal value. It can be measured just like THD/SNR.

But for some reason no one who speaks about importance of a “good” clock and its effect on jitter ever brings any numbers.

 

[amix]

What do you recommend for a high quality inexpensive CD transport?

The market seems to be empty, these days. Shanling create thee ET3, but that costs around 800€. It has simple streaming built in as well, but only for local sources.

 

[amix]

Brennan Helix

Never heard of them.

 

[cooky560]

The solution with CD is buy used, you can get some excellent players, and transports on eBay for very little money.