WiiM Sub Pro with WiiM Pro(+)

[Nanook]

As far as I understand the Sub Pro manual, operating the Sub Pro with the other WiiM streamers (mini, pro, pro+) is not reasonably possible.
If this holds true, this is a serious missed chance - no idea if this is marketing driven or if there are real technical restrictions. When connecting the sub via WiFi, I don't see a real blocking point, as processor and memory are the same for the Pro(+) and the Ultra. To me it's just software - correct me if I'm wrong.

I use the WiiM Pro with an external DAC (D-6s) and active speakers. I would add a subwoofer if it could be properly integrated into the existing system. I wouldn't switch to a WiiM Ultra because it's too big for the window sill; I don't want a display and I think the ES9038 is outdated, although the differences won't be audible.

 

[Wiimer]

As far as I understand the Sub Pro manual, operating the Sub Pro with the other WiiM streamers (mini, pro, pro+) is not reasonably possible.

I don't think so, but where did you find the problem?

 

[Burnside]

I can happily wirelessly pair the sub pro with even my WiiM Mini. When I have it paired, the usual wireless sub settings appear under Mini’s device settings in the app so I see no technical barrier at all. When manual mentions “WiiM streamer” it’s often followed by “e.g.” so it’s not saying the devices listed are the definitive list, just an example list.

I think you may be over-thinking it

Edit: here’s the settings page in the app when I paired the Sub Pro on the fly with my WiiM Pro - the crossover etc can be changed on the page linked to the values shown.

 

[Nanook]

Thanks a lot for the clarification .

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1s6P3Fnk7L.pdf

This manual indeed says "e.g.": "A compatible WiiM Streamer: The WiiM Sub Pro is designed to seamlessly connect with a WiiM streamer (e.g., WiiM Ultra, WiiM Amp Pro, WiiM Amp Ultra)."
I didn't find a manual on the WiiM website - did someone find it and please share a link?

Is my current understanding right (yes, I read the manual ;-) ):
- I do pair the Sub Pro with my Pro Plus streamer
- I choose the crossover frequency (30Hz - 110Hz)
- I choose the sub level with respect to the WiiM-Pro output level (-15dB - +15dB)
- I choose the polarity such that the phase fits approximately in the crossover region
Now I should have a working system.

In the setup under question I'm using the D-6s as external DAC via coaxial SPDIF.

Questions:
The WiiM Sub has a lowpass filter Linkwitz Riley 4th order (24dB/octave) as far as I read.
- Does the WiiM Pro (Plus) apply a corresponding filter (i.e. highpass 4th order Linkwitz-Riley) to the analog and digital outputs? Or do I have to apply a HP-Filter in the PEQ settings?
My concern is: I do not want to run the active speakers (at SPDIF output) full-range. These Genelecs 1030A are ported and the different phase roll-off would likely give a whole mess.
- Does the WiiM-Pro volume control steer the analog and digital output of the WiiM-Pro(+) and the Sub-Pro at the same time?

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

[Burnside]

Thanks a lot for the clarification .

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1s6P3Fnk7L.pdf

This manual indeed says "e.g.": "A compatible WiiM Streamer: The WiiM Sub Pro is designed to seamlessly connect with a WiiM streamer (e.g., WiiM Ultra, WiiM Amp Pro, WiiM Amp Ultra)."
I didn't find a manual on the WiiM website - did someone find it and please share a link?

https://www.wiimhome.com/langPdf/en/WiiM%20Sub%20Pro%20UM.pdf

Is my current understanding right (yes, I read the manual ;-) ):
- I do pair the Sub Pro with my Pro Plus streamer
- I choose the crossover frequency (30Hz - 110Hz)
- I choose the sub level with respect to the WiiM-Pro output level (-15dB - +15dB)
- I choose the polarity such that the phase fits approximately in the crossover region
Now I should have a working system.

That’s my understanding

In the setup under question I'm using the D-6s as external DAC via coaxial SPDIF.

Questions:
The WiiM Sub has a lowpass filter Linkwitz Riley 4th order (24dB/octave) as far as I read.
- Does the WiiM Pro (Plus) apply a corresponding filter (i.e. highpass 4th order Linkwitz-Riley) to the analog and digital outputs?

I believe so but the sub experts will surely correct me if I’m wrong. @harkpabst , @dominikz ??

My concern is: I do not want to run the active speakers (at SPDIF output) full-range. These Genelecs 1030A are ported and the different phase roll-off would likely give a whole mess.
- Does the WiiM-Pro volume control steer the analog and digital output of the WiiM-Pro(+) and the Sub-Pro at the same time?

Yes

 

[harkpabst]

My WiiM Sub Pro is due for delivery this week.

In all honesty, I'm still a bit confused about which options are available in which mode.

 

[Burnside]

My WiiM Sub Pro is due for delivery this week.

In all honesty, I'm still a bit confused about which options are available in which mode.

According to WiiM, the options that are hidden when you pair the Sub Pro are automatically taken care of by WiiM’s software given they’re driving their own kit.

 

[dominikz]

I believe so but the sub experts will surely correct me if I’m wrong. @harkpabst , @dominikz ??

I have no experience with the WiiM Sub Pro so can't say for sure, I'm afraid.

 

[harkpabst]

According to WiiM, the options that are hidden when you pair the Sub Pro are automatically taken care of by WiiM’s software given they’re driving their own kit.

Yep, and I'd really love to learn more about what that means.

 

[Nanook]

Ok., thanks a lot to all of you.

The question if the outputs of the WiiM Pro will run full-range when a Sub Pro is paired is indeed a go/no-go one for me.

@Burnside: When the Sub Pro is paired to your Mini:
- do the other speakers still play full-range? When the crossover is set to 110Hz it should be audible and noticeable when touching the woofer membrane of the speakers.
- does a corresponding EQ show up in the PEQ settings? There's an option to select HP or LP since a couple of versions.

 

[harkpabst]

- do the other speakers still play full-range? When the crossover is set to 110Hz it should be audible and noticeable when touching the woofer membrane of the speakers.

Yes, setting the subwoofer level to the minimum position should make the effect more obvious.

 

[Nanook]

That would indeed be a pity, if WiiM has not implemented an optional HP-filter for the mains.

There are two aspects imho and it depends on the mains which way to go:

1) Mains run full-range:
In case the LP-filter in the Sub Pro is 4th order and the mains are ported (HP roll-off 4th order), you can be lucky if you adjust the crossover frequency appropriately to get a reasonable cross-over region. (Same holds true for a 2nd order LP-filter and a closed box, which rolls-off HP 2nd order as well.)
The mains then struggle with bass that they cannot reproduce and at the same time produce Doppler distortion in the midrange, which is something you would want to avoid.

2) Mains get a HP-filter:
This would relieve the mains (-> higher levels possible, less Doppler distortion), but at the same time, the crossover frequency would have to be set reasonably above the lower cutoff frequency of the mains so that their amplitude- and phase response remains moderate in the crossover region.

So far we know nothing about the LP-filter in the Sub Pro, or is there some information given?

Ideally I would like have the options to
- configure LP-filter for the Sup Pro (filter order and cut-off frequency)
- configure HP-filter for the mains signal path (filter order and cut-off frequency (may be different than the LP-filter of the Sub Pro)
- allow this HP-filter to be switched on or off

The problem with this is that many users would find this flexibility in the settings overwhelming—so perhaps an “advanced user mode” like on the Fritzbox?