WiiM Ultra Phono Stage

[harkpabst]

Looks the sampling rate and accuracy of WiiM’s phono stage are low, felt the sound switched from vinyl to CD.

The sampling rate is well defined and never low, it's the same as for the line input, indeed. Not sure what you mean by accuracy.

Did you try changing the line input resolution? 24 bit 192 kHz might be the highest setting, but not necessarily the best.

Just curious, but are you comparing the same recordings between vinyl and CD?

That's a valid question as well.

Makes a humming, scratchy sound, even at low volume.

This leaves me a little puzzled. "Humming" and "scratchy" are concerning very different frequency ranges in my book. When you say "even at low.volume", does changing the volume (on the Ultra,.I hope) make any difference at all? If it doesn't it's most likely an external source of interference causing the noise.

It's been pointed out several times now that the Ultra's phono input might be more prone to EMI (or RFI if you prefer that term) than other devices. Make sure to use quality shielded cables and connect the ground plugs, no matter what (the cable supplied with the record player should do, though). Make sure the turntable is not connected to any Bluetooth receiver. Keep all AC adapters of all other devices as far away as possible. Ideally, disconnect everything but the TT, the Ultra and the power amp from the mains to see if the noise disappears. Then connect other devices, one by one. Power line network adapters and faulty power bricks have been shown to be responsible for noise in the past.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

The sampling rate is well defined and never low, it's the same as for the line input, indeed. Not sure what you mean by accuracy.

Did you try changing the line input resolution? 24 bit 196 kHz might be the highest setting, but not necessarily the best.


That's a valid question as well.


This leaves me a little puzzled. "Humming" and "scratchy" are concerning very different frequency ranges in my book. When you say "even at low.volume", does changing the volume (on the Ultra,.I hope) make any difference at all? If it doesn't it's most likely an external source of interference causing the noise.

It's been pointed out several times now that the Ultra's phono input might be more prone to EMI (or RFI if you prefer that term) than other devices. Make sure to use quality shielded cables and connect the ground plugs, no matter what (the cable supplied with the record player should do, though). Make sure the turntable is not connected to any Bluetooth receiver. Keep all AC adapters of all other devices as far away as possible. Ideally, disconnect everything but the TT, the Ultra and the power amp from the mains to see if the noise disappears. Then connect other devices, one by one. Power line network adapters and faulty power bricks have been shown to be responsible for noise in the past.

I set the phono input resolution to max, and am using the supplied cable, which works fine on the integrated amplifier. The only things plugged in where the turntable, Ultra and amplifier, all on the same plug, so no floating ground issues.

I read the Ultra may be more susceptible to EMI, so I'll play around with that over the weekend and see if there's any magic combination of variables that resolve the noise issue. Ideally I'd like to use the phono input on the Ultra, and keep the RCA input free for another source.

 

[Fralle]

I wouldn't try to use the Phono MC setting, but when used with an MM or MI or high output MC cartridge the phono pre is really sounding very nice. I don't think anything in the price range you mention would be any better.

Whatever you connect to the Ultra's line input will be digitised immediately, just like the Phono input.

Bumping this thread since I cant find any MM or MC setting or any kind of setting except gain for the phono stage. Where can I find this?

 

[Burnside]

Bumping this thread since I cant find any MM or MC setting or any kind of setting except gain for the phono stage. Where can I find this?

Use audio input, choose phono and a new entry “phono stage input type” will appear above “per source volume control” in the options at the bottom of the screen

 

[Gr80]

Has anyone experienced the following isseu?
there is nothing plugged into the wiim, phono input selected, volume set to max, there is noise can hear and see on VU meter if I gently tap the Wiim case - the turntable is not connected and even then this happens (and this is also the case if it is connected) so it is definitely not the phono catridge picking it up.
I don't think the electronics could be that sensitive to vibrations - would anyone try the same thing with their ultra?

The phono stage is very sensitive. I wouldn’t be too concerned. Try plugging in a line level source into phono input, you’ll get violent assaulting audio with just a crack of the volume control and possibly blown speakers and amp.

 

[zh_chx]

Just curious, but are you comparing the same recordings between vinyl and CD?

It means WiiM phono stage generated more electronics noise.

 

[Robbyrtp]

If you tap the WiiM and the turntable is on the same equipment stand you will more than likely get this effect.

 

[Burgo]

Just got my Ultra 2 days ago and everything is fine apart from MC phono input, with which I've got a slight issue . I'm using an Entre MC cartridge in a Mission 774 arm on an LP12 deck and plugging it straight in with the Ultra set to MC I get a low rhythmic, cycling, crackling sound.

If I use the MM input via a Lentek MC head amp then no noise and all is good.

I'm not sure what's happening - unless it the mismatch between the Entre output of 0,2 mV (3.54cm/s, 1000 Hz) and the Utra's expectation of around 0.5mv & /or a capacitance issue in the leads causing a problem.

Also, FWIW my Ultra also picks up a tap on the case and translates to an audible bump through the speakers - and the deck's on a totally different platform on a marble tiled floor so don't think it's picking up the vibration.

Any ideas??

 

[nickhews]

Hi,
Got my Ultra a few weeks ago and really like it - very good value for money and broadly technically sound.
With one exception.
On finally attaching my LP12 with AT33ev MC cartridge 10 days ago, I got noise similar to that described above, rather like a scratchy record. I have removed EoP devices, rerouted cables as far as possible, moved other devices where practical, etc, with no improvement.
Next step was to get a Fosi Box X5 phono pre. This is very quiet/silent to my hearing and works as expected. It sits just under the Ultra and next to a pair of Fosi v3 monos and above their power supplies, so the overall setup is not positionally much different than before.
I can only assume as said elsewhere in this forum that the Ultra phono in MC mode is unusually sensitive to RF/EMC emissions. I was considering applying tin foil around the Ultra, but if anyone has a better suggestion please let me know!
I will keep the Ultra for it's digital and preamp abilities, but if Wiim read these comments I hope they can improve this part of their product in the future.

 

[hgo58]

Hi,
Got my Ultra a few weeks ago and really like it - very good value for money and broadly technically sound.
With one exception.
On finally attaching my LP12 with AT33ev MC cartridge 10 days ago, I got noise similar to that described above, rather like a scratchy record. I have removed EoP devices, rerouted cables as far as possible, moved other devices where practical, etc, with no improvement.
Next step was to get a Fosi Box X5 phono pre. This is very quiet/silent to my hearing and works as expected. It sits just under the Ultra and next to a pair of Fosi v3 monos and above their power supplies, so the overall setup is not positionally much different than before.
I can only assume as said elsewhere in this forum that the Ultra phono in MC mode is unusually sensitive to RF/EMC emissions. I was considering applying tin foil around the Ultra, but if anyone has a better suggestion please let me know!
I will keep the Ultra for it's digital and preamp abilities, but if Wiim read these comments I hope they can improve this part of their product in the future.

What sampling rates did you set for the Phono input?

Recommend is 24/96.

The Phono MC setting input is not as good as the MM setting, it is said. I use the MM and it sounds just fine.

 

[smonori]

Hi,
Got my Ultra a few weeks ago and really like it - very good value for money and broadly technically sound.
With one exception.
On finally attaching my LP12 with AT33ev MC cartridge 10 days ago, I got noise similar to that described above, rather like a scratchy record. I have removed EoP devices, rerouted cables as far as possible, moved other devices where practical, etc, with no improvement.
Next step was to get a Fosi Box X5 phono pre. This is very quiet/silent to my hearing and works as expected. It sits just under the Ultra and next to a pair of Fosi v3 monos and above their power supplies, so the overall setup is not positionally much different than before.
I can only assume as said elsewhere in this forum that the Ultra phono in MC mode is unusually sensitive to RF/EMC emissions. I was considering applying tin foil around the Ultra, but if anyone has a better suggestion please let me know!
I will keep the Ultra for it's digital and preamp abilities, but if Wiim read these comments I hope they can improve this part of their product in the future.

I ended up buying an external Phono preamp, and I modified the Ultra to remove the entire internal Phono preamp electronics from the signal path - so I have two analog inputs

 

[canard]

J'ai fini par acheter un préampli phono externe et j'ai modifié l'Ultra pour supprimer toute l'électronique interne du préampli phono du chemin du signal - j'ai donc deux entrées analogiques

???? interresting!
somes explications, photos ?
the bypass is not too difficult? rewiring?
could interest a lsome of people.....
;-)

 

[smonori]

???? interresting!
somes explications, photos ?
the bypass is not too difficult? rewiring?
could interest a lsome of people.....
;-)

yes, you have to disassemble the device and insert an external cable with a micro connector and redirect the internal wiring to it - it can be reassembled without a trace

 

[canard]

thanks... ;-)
it will be helpful to motivate or give ideas to other people... ( not me...no ultra...)

if you have looked closely at the phono part... could you describe it a little?
we know nothing about it... not even its capacitance in mm etc.

 

[nickhews]

What sampling rates did you set for the Phono input?

Recommend is 24/96.

The Phono MC setting input is not as good as the MM setting, it is said. I use the MM and it sounds just fine.

Hi,
Sampling rate has remained at 24/96.
I did not attempt to connect the tt to the MM input as it uses an MC cartridge. I did not/do not imagine that this would remove the problem, otherwise why build the phono stage with 2 separate gain options? I might try it, but probably not unless others test it and report success first.
In all published tests I have seen over the last 3 years, phono MC stages are worse than MM, presumably because of the gain. Picking up RF etc would, I naively imagine, be relatively cheap and easy to deal with inside the unit. I remember some old computer motherboards with a small housing on them, presumably for a similar reason, although the frequencies being dealt with may have been different.

 

[hgo58]

I did not attempt to connect the tt to the MM input as it uses an MC cartridge.

Not sure what you mean here? The Phono input is for both MM and MC. The type shall be set in the "Audio Input" settings.
Where did you connect the TT?

 

[guy48065]

yes, you have to disassemble the device and insert an external cable with a micro connector and redirect the internal wiring to it - it can be reassembled without a trace
View attachment 18009View attachment 18010View attachment 18011

Your photos, or from some DIY project site?
I might consider this. I recently bought a Fosi Box 5 but haven't been able to compare the Wiim phono input.
I've used only MC ctgs for 40 years and would rather not change.

 

[smonori]

Your photos, or from some DIY project site?
I might consider this. I recently bought a Fosi Box 5 but haven't been able to compare the Wiim phono input.
I've used only MC ctgs for 40 years and would rather not change.

these are my photos, from my DIY project.
I used one male and one female "Molex PicoBlade 3p. 1.25mm" connector - can be done without soldering, the factory connector metal contacts can be transferred to the PicoBlade connector.
You have to be careful because the cables on the edge of the connector are the Phono input cables, but at first glance this is not the logical pin assignment. (The picture still shows the wrong cable layout.)

I started with the following video:

 

[nickhews]

Not sure what you mean here? The Phono input is for both MM and MC. The type shall be set in the "Audio Input" settings.
Where did you connect the TT?

Sorry - my mind was wandering! The tt was connected to the phono inputs and I used the WHA to select MC from the phono input options. I did not try changing the setting to MM.
The Fosi X5 is connected to the Line Input sockets.

 

[hgo58]

Sorry - my mind was wandering! The tt was connected to the phono inputs and I used the WHA to select MC from the phono input options. I did not try changing the setting to MM.
The Fosi X5 is connected to the Line Input sockets.

Ok. I see. I think others also have had problems with some MC cartridges.

It's best to have the pre-amp very close to those, as the signal is very weak.

My more standard MM works fine.

I think the WiiM had implemented the Phono with the RIAA circuit first and then using the analog gain available in the ADC chip. So maybe too sensitive to noise?