WiiM Ultra Phono Stage

[harkpabst]

I did not try changing the setting to MM.

And there's no point in trying, of course. I don't think @hgo58 suggested to switch from MC to MM, but mainly pointed out that those using the MM gain setting mostly find it very usable.

Sampling rate has remained at 24/96.

24/96 is not the default for line in/phono in. You have to explicitly change it to that value. Once, at least. While the exact reason is still not entirely clear, some have reported the default ADC setting aof 16/44.1 to cause crackling noise. So, RFI, boosted due to the higher gain, is not the only possible cause of popping or crackling noise. If you set the line in resolution to 24/96 already, there's nothing left to gain from 24/192.

We also don't really know the input impedance and capacitance of the Ultra's phono input, yet. Even less, if it is really different between MM and MC (as it should be).

 

[canard]

And there's no point in trying, of course. I don't think @hgo58

We also don't really know the input impedance and capacitance of the Ultra's phono input, yet. Even less, if it is really different between MM and MC (as it should be).

obvious questions asked since last June/July....

 

[guy48065]

obvious questions asked since last June/July....

But Wiim customer support has been SO responsive to almost every other issue.

 

[hgo58]

And there's no point in trying, of course. I don't think @hgo58 suggested to switch from MC to MM, but mainly pointed out that those using the MM gain setting mostly find it very usable.


24/96 is not the default for line in/phono in. You have to explicitly change it to that value. Once, at least. While the exact reason is still not entirely clear, some have reported the default ADC setting aof 16/44.1 to cause crackling noise. So, RFI, boosted due to the higher gain, is not the only possible cause of popping or crackling noise. If you set the line in resolution to 24/96 already, there's nothing left to gain from 24/192.

We also don't really know the input impedance and capacitance of the Ultra's phono input, yet. Even less, if it is really different between MM and MC (as it should be).

This is what WiiM specified

Gain: 41dB MM / 59dB MC
MM: THD+N -75dB，SNR 76dB@5mV;
MC: THD+N -58dB,SNR 56dB@0.5mV
RIAA accuracy: < ±0.5dB / 20Hz - 20kHz

And from the below review we got:

Phono MM: low noise (78 dB), amplification 42 dB, input impedance 54 Kohm/ 0 pF.

But nothing about MC.

WiiM Ultra Review « 7Review

For WiiM fans, the name of this new device already hints at its purpose: “Amp Ultra.” For everyone else, here’s a quick intro—the company’s naming is

7review.com

Other reviews state that the MC input is very noisy.

WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp ASR Review - Hifistudio79 voor de beste Audio Hifi

wiim WIIM ultra streamer audio spotify streaming pre amp tidal bluetooth phono headphone rca output screen qobuz high end touchscreen

www.hifistudio79.nl

The Phono input on the WiiM Ultra is convenient but if you are serious about vinyl, I would use a high end MC pre-amp directly into an amplifier.

 

[harkpabst]

This is what WiiM specified

Gain: 41dB MM / 59dB MC
MM: THD+N -75dB，SNR 76dB@5mV;
MC: THD+N -58dB,SNR 56dB@0.5mV
RIAA accuracy: < ±0.5dB / 20Hz - 20kHz

And from the below review we got:

Phono MM: low noise (78 dB), amplification 42 dB, input impedance 54 Kohm/ 0 pF.

But nothing about MC.

WiiM Ultra Review « 7Review

For WiiM fans, the name of this new device already hints at its purpose: “Amp Ultra.” For everyone else, here’s a quick intro—the company’s naming is

7review.com

Other reviews state that the MC input is very noisy.

WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp ASR Review - Hifistudio79 voor de beste Audio Hifi

wiim WIIM ultra streamer audio spotify streaming pre amp tidal bluetooth phono headphone rca output screen qobuz high end touchscreen

www.hifistudio79.nl

The Phono input on the WiiM Ultra is convenient but if you are serious about vinyl, I would use a high end MC pre-amp directly into an amplifier.

Yes, as I said: No information on input resistance and input capacitance.

 

[Luke lin]

Learned from WiiM that phono input impedance 47 Kohm/ 100 pF

 

[guy48065]

Does anyone make an external little box with connections inside for loading a phono cartridge? Inline.

In addition to the noise issues for MC input you also have inappropriate loading.

 

[Citizensmiff]

Apologies for dredging up an old thread, but I have issues relating to the phono stage/inputs on the Wiim Ultra.

Everyone here seems very knowledgeable about the technical aspects of hifi, but this is not me! Please help.

Setup is:
Wiim Ultra
Wiim Vibelink Amp
Dual CS 518 (switchable phono preamp)
B&W 602 s3

The issue comes when I try to add a Fosi X5 preamp into the system. Everyone raves about separate preamps and this seemed to have positive reviews.

If I connect the Fosi X5 to the phono input on the Ultra, I get a loud hum from the speakers. (Tried switching turntable phono on/off, tried ground cable on Ultra and Fosi).

If I connect the Fosi to the line input on the Ultra it is perfectly silent (which is what I expected from the Fosi), and the turntable plays, but the sound is pretty average.

If I disconnect the Fosi and just run the turntable through the Phono input on the Ultra, there is a fair bit of noise/hiss when no record is playing, but the sound when I do play records is waaay better.

Am I doing something wrong in the setup of the Fosi, or should it be run through the line in as I have been trying? I understand I should use the set up that sounds best to me, so I can just send the Fosi back, but I find it hard to match the result and sound I got with all the rave reviews online.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

 

[Skull]

Yes connect the Fosi to the line in not the phono input
I have the x2 phono preamp and I have it connected that way

 

[Mr Ee]

connect the Fosi to the line input on the Ultra it

As above, this is the right way to connect a phono preamp as it's putting out a line level signal.

Within the Audio Input screen, what are your line in input resolution settings?
Try 24 bit 96 khz.
Also check whether you have any gain, eq or similar accidentally enabled.

Maybe unrelated, but how are the ultra and vibelink connected?
Personally, I greatly prefer digital over analog here.

 

[harkpabst]

If I disconnect the Fosi and just run the turntable through the Phono input on the Ultra, there is a fair bit of noise/hiss when no record is playing, but the sound when I do play records is waaay better.

And just to be perfectly clear on this: When connecting the CS 518 to the phono input of your WiiM Ultra (or the X5 for that matter) the switchable phono pre-amp built into the CS 518 must be off (switch in position PHONO, not LINE).

Each phono stage (and you've now got no less than three of them to choose from and compare) amplifies the signal by a factor of ~100 (!) and it applies the RIAA equalisation, boosting the bass and cutting the highs by another factor of 10. Whenever you connect two phono stages in series the result must be disastrous.

Many reviews might be raving about the X5 but personally I found it not usable, because it's lacking any form of subsonic filter. From my point of view this is a design flaw. Phono stages should always have a rumble filter, be it fixed or switchable. Applying EQ for the WiiM Ultra's line input (with the X5 connected o e could add a high pass filter) is not exactly the same as having a proper subsonic filter where it belongs. Using EQ it's possible to mitigate the negative impact on speakers and power amps, but subsonic noise on the input could already overdrive the input stage itself (or at least massively decrease its overhead). X5 => I'm not a fan.

So, we're left with the hiss and noise issue. If you made sure that you don't have the CS 518 phono pre enabled a d you're still getting hiss through the WiiM Ultra phono input start with the obvious: Did you connect a ground wire from the turntable to the Ultra's ground plug? Is that cable well seated, providing a sound connection?

Did you make sure the Ulra's phono input is switched to "MM" (not "MC") in the WiiM Home App?

The Ultra has been found to be somewhat sensitive to interference with the phono input. If doable, try moving the boxes around a little. Keep mains leads away from signal leads as much as possible. If you must cross cables, try to dress them so the crossing happens at a 90 Deg angle.

Good luck.

 

[HansD-NL]

"From my point of view this is a design flaw. Phono stages should always have a rumble filter, be it fixed or switchable."

Completely agree.

 

[pieterv1]

Curious to hear how many of other Ultra users out there have added an external phono preamp.
Personally I haven't, because for the occasional listening, it sounds good enough to my ears

 

[slartibartfast]

"From my point of view this is a design flaw. Phono stages should always have a rumble filter, be it fixed or switchable."

Completely agree.

I don't think any of my amplifiers have had a subsonic filter. My Cyrus 1 and Audio lab 8000a didn't and neither does my Musical Fidelity phono amp. I can see the tonearm resonance at about 10Hz on my vinyl rips.

 

[HansD-NL]

I don't think any of my amplifiers have had a subsonic filter. My Cyrus 1 and Audio lab 8000a didn't and neither does my Musical Fidelity phono amp. I can see the tonearm resonance at about 10Hz on my vinyl rips.

I discovered years ago while playing/recording a warped record using a NAD PP3 (build in ADC to USB output) that there also wasn't any highpass filtering going on. Woofers were flapping like crazy. I from then on set a highpass at around 30Hz 12 or 18db/oct in digital post-production. I sold the PP3 and in the rare event that I need to record something from vinyl I use a ART DJ Pre II (has a HPF) connected to the line-ins of my external audio interface, set it to 24bit 48KHz and when I'm done with the post production I export to a 16bit 44.1KHz lossless format. Mostly AIFF because it supports extended metadata like cover-art like FLAC and all lossy formats can do but WAV can't.