Advice on my system setup please.

[The Phoenix]

Hey everyone,
I have been going back and forth on options for my system setup and I would very much appreciate any advice on what you guys think on these options.

I currently have a Wiim Pro Plus and a Wiim Vibelink Amp that's connected to some ELAC Debut 3.0 DB63 bookshelf speakers.
And I am about to purchase an RSL Speedwoofer 10s mkii Sub to integrate into it.

Note that there is no base management for this setup, other than the crossover knob on the sub.
I will have to use the DAC in the Pro Plus, rather than the DAC in the Vibelink with this setup. To my ears the Vibelink DAC sounds nicer.
And there's no option to adjust the delay of the sub and speakers independently.

So my question to you fine people, is what sort of improvement might I expect if I was to buy more stuff to get some base management in my system?

My best option would be to buy a Wiim Ultra with it's built in base management, plus what (I think) is a better sounding DAC (same as Vibelink).
However that is $600 AUD, but I could sell the Pro Plus to offset some of that cost.

Another option is something I've seen people mention here is to get a Wiim Mini for the sub and group it with the Pro Plus, then use PEQ to high-pass the speakers. In this setup I also get to use the better DAC in the Vibelink, and I've been told that the inferior DAC in the Mini wont matter for a sub (is that right?).
Only $120 AUD for this option.
However, does this mean room correction is not possible with this setup?

There are also RCA high-pass plugs for $80, but it's at a fixed frequency, there's no delay adjustments and back to using the Pro Plus DAC.

I suppose my concern is if I go and spend $600 on an Ultra, then find I can't tell any difference and feel like a massive chump.

 

[Wiimer]

Hey everyone,
I have been going back and forth on options for my system setup and I would very much appreciate any advice on what you guys think on these options.

I currently have a Wiim Pro Plus and a Wiim Vibelink Amp that's connected to some ELAC Debut 3.0 DB63 bookshelf speakers.
And I am about to purchase an RSL Speedwoofer 10s mkii Sub to integrate into it.

Note that there is no base management for this setup, other than the crossover knob on the sub.
I will have to use the DAC in the Pro Plus, rather than the DAC in the Vibelink with this setup. To my ears the Vibelink DAC sounds nicer.
And there's no option to adjust the delay of the sub and speakers independently.

So my question to you fine people, is what sort of improvement might I expect if I was to buy more stuff to get some base management in my system?

My best option would be to buy a Wiim Ultra with it's built in base management, plus what (I think) is a better sounding DAC (same as Vibelink).
However that is $600 AUD, but I could sell the Pro Plus to offset some of that cost.

Another option is something I've seen people mention here is to get a Wiim Mini for the sub and group it with the Pro Plus, then use PEQ to high-pass the speakers. In this setup I also get to use the better DAC in the Vibelink, and I've been told that the inferior DAC in the Mini wont matter for a sub (is that right?).
Only $120 AUD for this option.
However, does this mean room correction is not possible with this setup?

There are also RCA high-pass plugs for $80, but it's at a fixed frequency, there's no delay adjustments and back to using the Pro Plus DAC.

I suppose my concern is if I go and spend $600 on an Ultra, then find I can't tell any difference and feel like a massive chump.

Hi

In my opinion, the ideal solution would be to buy an Ultra and connect it to the Vibelink amp via the digital output; the Sub would be connected to the Ultra's Sub out.

You could add a Mini for the Sub, but this is a bit on the inconvenient side as always have to play in a multi-room. I used to do this, but the volume control was a bit of a pain.

In my current system, I have a Pro connected to the Amp Ultra's sub out and two Subs connected to the Pro's line out. This may be overkill, but being able to use the Pro's PEQ to adjust the two Sub's individually is an advantage for me.

Similarly, the Plo plus and Mini allow the Sub and main speakers to be adjusted separately, but I don't think there's any great benefit in at least one Sub; it's more reasonable to use a single Ultra to adjust the Sub and Main.

I'd be happy to give you some tips.

 

[The Phoenix]

Hi

In my opinion, the ideal solution would be to buy an Ultra and connect it to the Vibelink amp via the digital output; the Sub would be connected to the Ultra's Sub out.

You could add a Mini for the Sub, but this is a bit on the inconvenient side as always have to play in a multi-room. I used to do this, but the volume control was a bit of a pain.

In my current system, I have a Pro connected to the Amp Ultra's sub out and two Subs connected to the Pro's line out. This may be overkill, but being able to use the Pro's PEQ to adjust the two Sub's individually is an advantage for me.

Similarly, the Plo plus and Mini allow the Sub and main speakers to be adjusted separately, but I don't think there's any great benefit in at least one Sub; it's more reasonable to use a single Ultra to adjust the Sub and Main.

I'd be happy to give you some tips.

Thanks for the reply mate.
What's your opinion on the significance of the overall sound quality and listening experience by adding the Ultra's base management?
Is it significant or minor?
Does the mini not have PEQ?
Do you have to go into the app and select multi group after every time the system goes into sleep/turns off?

Cheers.

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks for the reply mate.
What's your opinion on the significance of the overall sound quality and listening experience by adding the Ultra's base management?

Yes, there is a clear difference.
@dominikz is an expert in this area, read some of his posts.

Is it significant or minor?

At least I think it is significant.

Does the mini not have PEQ?

Yes, but the Mini PEQ doesn't yet have a high-pass and low-pass filter function.

When using the Pro plus and Mini, the Pro plus PEQ must be used to high-pass the main speakers and the low-pass must be done on the sub side; it is possible to use the Mini's PEQ to adjust the high-pass curve as a supplement.

Do you have to go into the app and select multi group after every time the system goes into sleep/turns off?

No. Multi-room group can be keeped after sleep or reboot. It probably won't cause any major problems. However, other members have reported that the two devices may be out of perfect sync. (I didn't notice that, though.)

 

[The Phoenix]

Thanks again @Wiimer I appreciate the detailed response.

The Sub has a low pass filter so the missing low pass on the mini shouldn't be an issue.
I see room correction for the mini is in beta, but I wonder if it will work without issue in a group setup.
I'd rather the ease of just getting the Ultra, but $120 vs $600 is significant so I'll think on it some more.
Cheers.

 

[dominikz]

In my experience proper bass management gives you more flexibility for subwoofer integration, but I've previously had solid results even without it.

Sound quality improvement is not guaranteed at all by buying more gear, since physical placement of speakers and sub, and how well you integrate their responses, play a much more important role. Again, bass management helps with integration, but you may be able to do well without it.

Regarding DACs, it is difficult to meaningfully compare them without matching their levels super-closely (less than 0.1dB difference), having a way to switch without delay, and testing blind. In any case, any real difference will be very small (I know it may not seem that way, here's my own experience) so I'd recommend to focus on getting the best response integration instead.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Wiimer]

I see room correction for the mini is in beta, but I wonder if it will work without issue in a group setup.
I'd rather the ease of just getting the Ultra, but $120 vs $600 is significant so I'll think on it some more.
Cheers.

You're welcome

RoomFit on my Mini is working fine. RoomFit is a per-device correction, so it should work fine for multi-room groups.

Please take the time to consider the opinions of other members.

PS, Personally, I would recommend the Pro over the Mini when using two WiiMs.

 

[dominikz]

My best option would be to buy a Wiim Ultra with it's built in base management, plus what (I think) is a better sounding DAC (same as Vibelink).
However that is $600 AUD, but I could sell the Pro Plus to offset some of that cost.

More food for thought - if you decide you need proper bass management, perhaps an option might also be to sell both the Pro Plus and the Vibelink Amp and replace them with just an Amp Pro (or Amp Ultra if you need the screen, stability into 2Ohm loads, and about 2-3dB more headroom - I've compared the two devices in this post).

With either of these two devices you'd have a single-box fully-integrated solution, complete with bass management.

Another alternative might be to add a Sub Pro instead of the RSL Speedwoofer 10s mk II to your existing system - though I have to say that the RSL Speedwoofer 10s mk II is certainly the more powerful sub.

 

[Mr Ee]

To me, Amp Ultra sounds like the Vibelink (digital in). The amp pro does not...
But the amp ultra is a fair bit more money than the amp pro.
Too many options!