Any DSD features on Pro Plus?

[weiland555]

Some early reviews mention DSD capabilities in the Pro Plus's new DAC. Are any such features available at the moment? Can the internal DAC decode DSD?

 

[Brantome]

Some early reviews mention DSD capabilities in the Pro Plus's new DAC. Are any such features available at the moment? Can the internal DAC decode DSD?

No mention of this from WiiM themselves - raise a ticket via feedback in the WiiM home app to ask them directly.

 

[weiland555]

No mention of this from WiiM themselves - raise a ticket via feedback in the WiiM home app to ask them directly.

A-ha. Will do. Thanks.

 

[Tom Schultz]

Hi,
I have a Pro Plus since Saturday and have been trying to play DSD files stored on a NAS. Actually I only purchased the Pro Plus as Wiim claims DSD512 support on their website (https://wiim-audio.de/products/wiim-pro-plus). There are a few threads here discussing the feature, but I could not find any information from Wiim how it supports DSD.

In my setup the Pro Plus is fed with music files via Ethernet/ UPnP. The first thing I've tried was to play DSD64 from Audirvana Studio (2.5.2) music player running on a mac mini, to the internal DAC of the Pro Plus (Line-Out). Audirvana is set to send DSD over PCM (DoP), so without converting DSD to PCM. It seems the Pro Plus converts DSD to PCM as the Wiim app shows the Pro Plus is playing back 24bits, 176,4 hKz (PCM).

I will do further testing with an external DAC (CHORD Mojo2) and with the internal DAC using Minimserver (DLNA) on the NAS from within the Wiim app. Actually, however, it would be great if there was documentation what DSD-capabilities to expect.

 

[Tom Schultz]

2nd test case with the internal DAC was to select a DSD file via the DLNA-Server Minimserver (2.2) from the Musicshare section in the Wiim app. The artwork of the file is shown, but the file does not start playing. I've tried with several different DSD-files (.dsf). Any PCM-file (e.g. FLAC 16bit 44.1kHz) plays without problems (obviously)

3rd test case with the internal DAC was to select a DSD file via Minimserver from the iOS DLNA Control-Point-app 8player Pro v7.1.2. The artwork of the file is shown, but the file does not start playing. Any PCM-file (e.g. FLAC 16bit 44.1kHz) plays without problems.

Uncertain whether something might be wrong with the Minimserver setup I've played DSD64 files without issue to a CHORD Poly/Mojo2 (Streamer/DAC) combo over Wi-Fi/UPnP.

Next up, DSD passthrough to external DAC....

 

[Brantome]

See this thread relating to DSD and the Squeezelite client, inter alia

DSD transcoded on the fly to PCM-192kHz?

I've been enjoying the new Squeezelite functionality of the WiiM Pro and thought I'd see what would happen if I played some of my .dsf files from my LMS music library. To my surprise, music immediately played in decent sound quality with my DAC indicating PCM 192kHz. Firstly, I was not...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[simbun]

2nd test case with the internal DAC was to select a DSD file via the DLNA-Server Minimserver (2.2) from the Musicshare section in the Wiim app. The artwork of the file is shown, but the file does not start playing. I've tried with several different DSD-files (.dsf). Any PCM-file (e.g. FLAC 16bit 44.1kHz) plays without problems (obviously)

If you have the licensed version of MinimServer you could try changing the advertised mime type as described here.

I don't have any DSD files, but if you can't test that change I'd be happy to if you can supply a heavily truncated track.

 

[Brantome]

If you have the licensed version of MinimServer you could try changing the advertised mime type as described here.

I don't have any DSD files, but if you can't test that change I'd be happy to if you can supply a heavily truncated track.

See
Post in thread 'DSD transcoded on the fly to PCM-192kHz?'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/dsd-transcoded-on-the-fly-to-pcm-192khz.1605/post-23561

 

[Tom Schultz]

If you have the licensed version of MinimServer you could try changing the advertised mime type as described here.

Thank you, I was aware of the mime type issue and had created Minimserver-profiles with and without the mime type string. During testing I toggled between the profiles, but it did not impact the (negative) results.

 

[Razorhack96]

It is probably not a mime type issue. The hardware can do DSD on the Pro+, but native transcoding to the internal DAC is not there from a software perspective. Kinda false advertising on WiiM’s part. I logged ticket regarding this with an apology for a response, but nothing since September of 2023.

If you want native DSD like I do, log a ticket. Enough complaints might get real DSD support moved up on the development backlog.

 

[madbrain]

I filed a ticket for this, too. Everyone else who own a Pro Plus should.

 

[Brantome]

I filed a ticket for this, too. Everyone else who own a Pro Plus should.

I have a Pro Plus but don’t use DSD, so I’ll pass WiiM have said their engineers are looking into firmware support for DSD

 

[Brantome]

Ah, so no difference Atoll?

Sorry, couldn't help myself…

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Why on earth are those concerned about DSD even considering using the dac on the Wiim Pro Plus it really isn’t the best analogue stage regardless of it being an improved dac over the pro. If you want the quality of DSD you’re better served elsewhere really.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Just tried again to hear any differences. My good old Atoll with SACDs sounds absolutely great.
The same album as DSD file, Qobuz or CD sounded exactly as good. May be Golden Ears will hear something
And that is the way DSD was handled this morning:

View attachment 3242

You have broken DSD there using volume control on the DAC you can’t apply DSP to a DSD stream.

 

[madbrain]

Seems some people got triggered, sigh. I won't pretend that I can hear the difference between an SACD/DSD and 24/192 kHz. And I'm not here to debate DSD/SACD merits vs PCM.

However, I do have a sizeable collection of SACDs, started in 1999 when the format came out. For a long time, SACD was the only way to get high res audio content. I hate the copy protection also, but fortunately with the help of an old PS3, I was able to rip my SACD collection to ISOs.
I still buy new SACDs, and have some that I have yet to rip. I have about 600GB worth of SACD ISOs. I can easily convert them to high-res PCM, but that will take even more space unless I delete the ISO originals, which I wouldn't. I would rather let the WiiM device handle the DSD->PCM conversion itself as needed. DSD can be and is used without copy protection, too. I have a DSD AD/DA (Tascam DA-3000) which can record in DSD, and there is no copy protection on the output files.

My point is mainly that WiiM advertised the DSD512 feature in the specs, so we all technically paid for this feature, yet it is missing. It cannot hurt to have this feature implemented, even if you don't use it. And if you some day part with your WiiM Pro Plus, it'll be more valuable with DSD support than not.

 

[Mike in NY]

DSD is a completely pointless format that Sony invented for copy protection at SACD.

That is not accurate, DSD was invented as an archival format, originally intended as a solution for digitizing the analog tape masters owned by Sony Music. It was not at that time envisioned as a consumer format, though it did become one thereafter, but the original purpose/use was as a means of archiving a lot of aging and deteriorating analog master tapes.

 

[madbrain]

Right, but this early honest approach soon created a sideline "second valorization" which absolutely makes sense from their business view.
Still listening too and purchasing SACDs, mainly because the gear to play them is still here, but the increased sound quality I was never able to identify. But it seems to be my nature as hunter and collector
And of course the point with misleading advertising is correct. For me this format is irrelevant and senseless for streaming. Not so much work to put the disc into the player. But that is of course my very private approach and not the scale.
Have a good time @ everyone!

With a whole house audio system it is unfortunately not practical to insert the disc into the player. The player is physically much too far away from the listening position A disc player is also not made to handle multiple zones, either, so you have to be really creative with the distribution system . Whereas streamers like CCAs and Wiim can handle these things. I used to have a 5 disc SACD player hooked up to amps set to "multi channel stereo" mode to play onto all the various zones at once. I controlled the system with an RF remote. This was before streamers appeared that could be controled with smartphones. The SACD changer mechanism failed. I went through 4 changers before I gave up. I still have a working single disc SACD player (ubp-x800) in my home theater. So, yes, I want DSD streamers for the WHA system.

Re: the sound quality, I could definitely differentiate redbook CD from the SACD stereo layer, at least in my 20s when I was first exposed to DSD. I believe I still can in my 40s, but it's more difficult to tell now. Between hires PCM and DSD64, I don't think I could tell the difference. I can also tell MP3 apart from lossless. It's not that hard when you know how the MP3 algorithm works. Basically the version with more bass and less detailed highs is always the MP3 version Given just one version to listen to, though, I could never tell what it is.

 

[Mike in NY]

Right, but this early honest approach soon created a sideline "second valorization" which absolutely makes sense from their business view.

Absolutely, and they were competing with the DVD consortium (led by Toshiba among others) for the next form of physical media, to rescue the loss of the expiring Compact Disc patent royalties.

Not so much work to put the disc into the player.

It's also now much easier and cheaper to rip SACDs to files that play over your network (local streaming) to a DAC, far easier/cheaper than the original PS3 method was.

 

[Brantome]

Yeah, strange how so many of us remember minidisc fondly but it didn't last. I remember getting a minidisc player installed in my first Audi back in '96(?) ...