Audiophilia - where sanity & common sense come to die

[Steve Woodhouse]

For sure - it has always been like this. Some audio brands are 'value for money' and others are 'price is prestige'.

Randy (cheapaudioman) has his brand in the influencer audio marketing ecosystem that some like and others find grating. He's just a guy selling his brand which gets him clicks for payment and he's built an audience. Well done to him, 'cos none of us have done it.

As ever, I disagree with his nonsense 'audiophile' vocabulary. But he's usually entertaining, sometimes informative, and when he's not actually making BS up about how things sound, some of his other comments are on the nose. Same with Darko.

 

[harkpabst]

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Gentlemen, please calm down. I know that there are differences of opinion on the forum, but let's keep things civil.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Gentlemen, please calm down. I know that there are differences of opinion on the forum, but let's keep things civil.

Will do. And thank you.

 

[EddNog]

Some argue that a 5k streamer sounds better than a 100 dollar one because it costs more. Nobody' buys' a 5k streamer, they 'invest' in the box of electronics. They have been conned. The worst is that they then judge devices such as the Wiims as junk.

Wasn't there a company that literally was selling a standard <$200 Mini ITX-based computer in a fancy enclosure with a basic OS build stripped down for music as a multi-thousand dollar streamer?

Literal scam artists, some of these!

-Ed

 

[Zap Rekowski]

It's always nice to see how everyone or most people smash their heads after a thread was opened, clearly intended to be provocative in advance (yes, I also like to get into the boat from time to time).

 

[Wosi]

Wasn't there a company that literally was selling a standard <$200 Mini ITX-based computer in a fancy enclosure with a basic OS build stripped down for music as a multi-thousand dollar streamer?

Literal scam artists, some of these!

-Ed

Like this one? A little more expensive hardware but exponentially higher price (28k for a server with 48GB RAM): https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/extreme-high-end-music-server/

 

[dangermouse]

Getting back to the video featured in the first post. I was a fan of Randy when he first started, but I unsubscribed when he started to wander off the rails a couple of years ago.

I must admit though, that he does make some good points here. IMHO of course.

 

[EddNog]

Getting back to the video featured in the first post. I was a fan of Randy when he first started, but I unsubscribed when he started to wander off the rails a couple of years ago.

I must admit though, that he does make some good points here. IMHO of course.

His videos nowadays are mostly just ads in disguise.

-Ed

 

[EddNog]

Like this one? A little more expensive hardware but exponentially higher price (28k for a server with 48GB RAM): https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/extreme-high-end-music-server/

Yes and no...I mean, at least this one has reasonably high hardware specs, suped-up vapor pipe cooling, etc.

The one I was talking about was literally like a $300 build just marketed for 10 times the money as a fancy streamer.

-Ed

 

[dangermouse]

His videos nowadays are mostly just ads in disguise.

-Ed

You would appear to be missing the point of my post, but never mind.

 

[RAAM]

I think he makes a very compelling argument in this video.

I also believe there is a bit of room to improve most gear, and cables above a certain level that may cost more than some are willing to spend and when used together properly, most important being the room and setup, it is worth it for those into that aspect of the hobby.

Beyond that one can find further improvements but the prices increase is exponential and pretty soon we run into differences more than actual improvements.

At the upper end of things, which can be quite low for most of us, insane for some, it has far more to do with status than actually enjoying listening to music.

DIY speakers, cables, and carefully put together the rest of the system and do the best you can with the room and setup, one can have a hugely competent and satisfying system for a very modest expenditure. For not a great deal more one can also just buy decent cables and speakers and do as well.

IMHO there is a huge amount of snake oil and other pure BS going on but also getting the "fools" to spend their money helps the economy so helps us all a bit.

Rick

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

The annoying thing about the whole debate is the utter hypocrisy of high end manufacturers.

Back in the '80s the philosophy was clear. You wanted all hi-fi kit to do nothing except get out of the way + its own function. It wasn't supposed to colour the sound at all; that's what you were trying to avoid.

Absolutely everyone signed up to that. All the top-end lot were quoting SNR and THD+N, and it was pretty standard that the better the stats, the more expensive it was, with diminishing returns.

Then, simply because we've discovered more, and manufacturing costs have come down, that's out of the window.

My first amp that was above budget was an Audiolab 8000A. Cost me I think £350 in 1988, the BoE inflation calculator says that'd be £955 today.

My current amp cost me £200.

In comparison:

SNR
Audiolab 80 dB
PA5 II 120 dB

THD
Audiolab 0.05%
PA5 II 0.0005%

Power
Audiolab 60W
PA5 II 120W

So suddenly, it's not about getting out of the way, and accurate reproduction, it's about 'warmth', and all sorts of other b*ll*cks.

And the big problem is that people believe this stuff.

People just need to accept that you can build a 120W per channel amp with vanishingly (close to inaudible) low noise and distortion for £200, and anything more (unless you're in a very power hungry situation) simply isn't necessary.

Some people just aren't happy that we can all afford great hi-fi for relatively little. They hate it.

 

[EddNog]

You would appear to be missing the point of my post, but never mind.

Sorry, I was responding more in agreement of your comment that his stuff in general has wandered off the rails, and less about the specific video in the OP.

-Ed

 

[adias]

Another thread to fuel the objectivist-subjectivist nonsense war, going nowhere.

 

[castalla]

I think he makes a very compelling argument in this video.

I also believe there is a bit of room to improve most gear, and cables above a certain level that may cost more than some are willing to spend and when used together properly, most important being the room and setup, it is worth it for those into that aspect of the hobby.

Beyond that one can find further improvements but the prices increase is exponential and pretty soon we run into differences more than actual improvements.

At the upper end of things, which can be quite low for most of us, insane for some, it has far more to do with status than actually enjoying listening to music.

DIY speakers, cables, and carefully put together the rest of the system and do the best you can with the room and setup, one can have a hugely competent and satisfying system for a very modest expenditure. For not a great deal more one can also just buy decent cables and speakers and do as well.

IMHO there is a huge amount of snake oil and other pure BS going on but also getting the "fools" to spend their money helps the economy so helps us all a bit.

Rick

The economic impact of audiophile bits & pieces is miniscule at best. Sales of actual snake oil would have a bigger effect economically

 

[castalla]

Another thread to fuel the objectivist-subjectivist nonsense war, going nowhere.

It's not a war, it's a discussion with different points of view

 

[slartibartfast]

It's not a war, it's a discussion with different points of view

Nobody has ever changed their point of view in those discussions though

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Another thread to fuel the objectivist-subjectivist nonsense war, going nowhere.

Presumably you subscribe to neither.

In which case you've just introduced a third side to the war.

Might that help?

 

[castalla]

Nobody has ever changed their point of view in those discussions though

Well, let's call it a discourse, then.

On another site (dedicated to a particular audiophile brand) there's a thread of 3500 posts arguing about whether a particular firmware update had changed the 'organic' sound of their 30k systems. That's real audiophile dedication.