Ongoing Beta Beta Testing: Independent L/R Room Correction with Subwoofer

[rocher]

Ok just filled out the form, excited to test this feature out.

 

[dominikz]

@WiiM Team How do we know if we're included in the beta? I filled the form but haven't received any feedback. Thanks!

 

[Smartplug]

I think it will make it easier if they add toggle switch for this feature.

 

[slartibartfast]

I think it will make it easier if they add toggle switch for this feature.

Then you could join the beta to run the analysis, save the PEQ filters then leave the beta to prevent it screwing up all the other saved filters

 

[slartibartfast]

Hi Slartibartfast,

Thank you for your test. Our team will investigate this issue internally and work to identify the root cause as soon as possible.

Do you have any update on this? Do you need log files from my device?

 

[slartibartfast]

No update then? This is why people complain about communication during beta tests.
@WiiM Team @WiiM Support @RyanWithWiiM

S

Ongoing Beta Post in thread 'Beta Testing: Independent L/R Room Correction with Subwoofer'

Sunday at 12:10 AM

Hi Slartibartfast,

Thank you for your test. Our team will investigate this issue internally and work to identify the root cause as soon as possible.

Do you have any update on this? Do you need log files from my device?

• slartibartfast

 

[RyanWithWiiM]

No update then? This is why people complain about communication during beta tests.
@WiiM Team @WiiM Support @RyanWithWiiM

S

Ongoing Beta Post in thread 'Beta Testing: Independent L/R Room Correction with Subwoofer'

Sunday at 12:10 AM

Hi Slartibartfast,

Thank you for your test. Our team will investigate this issue internally and work to identify the root cause as soon as possible.

Do you have any update on this? Do you need log files from my device?

• slartibartfast

We're a small team and sometimes it just takes a little while before something can be addressed. I'll check in and see if there's anything I can do to lend a hand here. I know circling back with the community based on feedback received is a big thing to work on. We'll keep trying! Thanks for your patience.

 

[WiiM Team]

No update then? This is why people complain about communication during beta tests.
@WiiM Team @WiiM Support @RyanWithWiiM

S

Ongoing Beta Post in thread 'Beta Testing: Independent L/R Room Correction with Subwoofer'

Sunday at 12:10 AM

Hi Slartibartfast,

Thank you for your test. Our team will investigate this issue internally and work to identify the root cause as soon as possible.

Do you have any update on this? Do you need log files from my device?

• slartibartfast

Hi Slartibartfast，

Our team reviewed your results yesterday and updated the algorithm. This improvement does not require an app or firmware update. You can use the latest firmware and app to perform left and right Room Correction with the subwoofer again and review the results.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hi Slartibartfast，

Our team reviewed your results yesterday and updated the algorithm. This improvement does not require an app or firmware update. You can use the latest firmware and app to perform left and right Room Correction with the subwoofer again and review the results.

Does that mean my previously saved Stereo PEQ filters will work correctly? I don't understand how an external algorithm change will affect how previously entered PEQ filters are implemented.

 

[WiiM Team]

Does that mean my previously saved Stereo PEQ filters will work correctly? I don't understand how an external algorithm change will affect how previously entered PEQ filters are implemented.

Hello Slartibartfast,

We apologize for any confusion. We’ve released an updated algorithm for Independent L/R Room Correction with the Subwoofer yesterday. The app will automatically retrieve the new algorithm from our cloud and apply it internally. Please try performing the Independent L/R Room Correction with the Subwoofer again and let us know if it resolves the issues you were experiencing.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hello Slartibartfast,

We apologize for any confusion. We’ve released an updated algorithm for Independent L/R Room Correction with the Subwoofer yesterday. The app will automatically retrieve the new algorithm from our cloud and apply it internally. Please try performing the Independent L/R Room Correction with the Subwoofer again and let us know if it resolves the issues you were experiencing.

Who is confused? The issue is that my old stereo PEQ filters don't work correctly any more because the low frequencies are reduced since I joined this beta. A new algorithm for adding new independent L/R correction filters is not going to fix the issue with my original saved or manually input PEQ filters. Please confirm that this new algorithm resolved the issue with manually input stereo PEQ filters.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hello Slartibartfast,

We apologize for any confusion. We’ve released an updated algorithm for Independent L/R Room Correction with the Subwoofer yesterday. The app will automatically retrieve the new algorithm from our cloud and apply it internally. Please try performing the Independent L/R Room Correction with the Subwoofer again and let us know if it resolves the issues you were experiencing.

Something has definitely changed. This image compares the L/R results with B&K target befeore and after the new algorithm. Blue is the old algorithm, red is the new. Now we have too much bass again compared to the target curve. This is shown in the next two images.

 

[Smartplug]

So now the sound is excessive bass masking the midrange?

 

[slartibartfast]

So now the sound is excessive bass masking the midrange?

A little. I am not sure what the algorithm is doing. I expected them to just fix the saved Stereo filters but they seem to have affected the L/R filters as well. It must be possible to apply a new algorithm to L/R measurements with Subwoofer and leave everything else alone.

 

[Smartplug]

A little. I am not sure what the algorithm is doing. I expected them to just fix the saved Stereo filters but they seem to have affected the L/R filters as well. It must be possible to apply a new algorithm to L/R measurements with Subwoofer and leave everything else alone.

This feature is hard to get it right in comparison with stereo rc. It would probably stay on beta for a while. The involvement of subwoofer on independent rc is much more difficult than not having it.

 

[slartibartfast]

This feature is hard to get it right in comparison with stereo rc. It would probably stay on beta for a while. The involvement of subwoofer on independent rc is much more difficult than not having it.

Presumably I am not the only one testing this. It would be useful if other testers gave their observations.

 

[Wiimer]

Something has definitely changed. This image compares the L/R results with B&K target befeore and after the new algorithm. Blue is the old algorithm, red is the new. Now we have too much bass again compared to the target curve. This is shown in the next two images.

View attachment 17950
View attachment 17951

View attachment 17952

Thanks for the test.

With the new algorithm, it looks like just turning the sub volume down a bit will work.

I am curious what happens when you run the RC again with the level at -2dB in the subwoofer setting. Would that work or would it be boosted even more?

 

[dominikz]

Something has definitely changed. This image compares the L/R results with B&K target befeore and after the new algorithm. Blue is the old algorithm, red is the new. Now we have too much bass again compared to the target curve. This is shown in the next two images.

View attachment 17950
View attachment 17951

View attachment 17952

@slartibartfast Is the response in red the summed L+R channel response measurement?

I'm asking because if you EQ left and right channels each individually to the B&K target, it is expected that the summed L+R response will be about 3dB higher in the bass range.

In my experience the two channels will sum as incoherent sound sources at high frequencies (i.e. +3dB compared to individual channel level) and as coherent sound sources at low frequencies (i.e. +6dB compared to individual channel level).
The difference is usually the biggest below about 200Hz, which to me looks exactly like what your measurements seem to show.

So if you use the "stereo" RC variant I would expect the summed L+R measurement to match the B&K curve well, but if you use the individual channel RC variant I'd expect the summed L+R measurement to overshoot the B&K curve by about 3dB below 200Hz or so.

This would IMHO be the expected behavior if the new RC algorithm works correctly.

One way to address this would be by introducing a new variant of the B&K target curve with approx. 3dB less bass, which could be used by those who want the summed L+R response to match the B&K target when using individual channel correction.

Personally I prefer to have each channel match the original (unmodified) B&K curve, and have the +3dB bass level in the summed response, and I wouldn't want to lose this capability.

Presumably I am not the only one testing this. It would be useful if other testers gave their observations.

With the original Beta release of the individual channel room correction with subwoofer enabled I also saw a similar dip between 30-80Hz with the newly calculated RC filters (this was IMHO indeed a bug):

The RC function didn't predict this dip:


But it did measure it when running result assessment - reinforcing the fact that this was not working as expected:


Note that I haven't yet tried to re-do RC with the updated version of the algorithm mentioned by @WiiM Team in post #28. Based on your (@slartibartfast) results from the previous post it seems to me the new version solved the issue, and I'm looking forward to retesting with the new algorithm!

 

[slartibartfast]

@slartibartfast Is the response in red the summed L+R channel response measurement?

I'm asking because if you EQ left and right channels each individually to the B&K target, it is expected that the summed L+R response will be about 3dB higher in the bass range.

In my experience the two channels will sum as incoherent sound sources at high frequencies (i.e. +3dB compared to individual channel level) and as coherent sound sources at low frequencies (i.e. +6dB compared to individual channel level).
The difference is usually the biggest below about 200Hz, which to me looks exactly like what your measurements seem to show.

So if you use the "stereo" RC variant I would expect the summed L+R measurement to match the B&K curve well, but if you use the individual channel RC variant I'd expect the summed L+R measurement to overshoot the B&K curve by about 3dB below 200Hz or so.

This would IMHO be the expected behavior if the new RC algorithm works correctly.

One way to address this would be by introducing a new variant of the B&K target curve with approx. 3dB less bass, which could be used by those who want the summed L+R response to match the B&K target when using individual channel correction.

Personally I prefer to have each channel match the original (unmodified) B&K curve, and have the +3dB bass level in the summed response, and I wouldn't want to lose this capability.


With the original Beta release of the individual channel room correction with subwoofer enabled I also saw a similar dip between 30-80Hz with the newly calculated RC filters (this was IMHO indeed a bug):
View attachment 17953
The RC function didn't predict this dip:
View attachment 17954

But it did measure it when running result assessment - reinforcing the fact that this was not working as expected:
View attachment 17955

Note that I haven't yet tried to re-do RC with the updated version of the algorithm mentioned by @WiiM Team in post #28. Based on your (@slartibartfast) results from the previous post it seems to me the new version solved the issue, and I'm looking forward to retesting with the new algorithm!

I wasn't sure if the new algorithm was better or not. I hadn't even mentioned issues with the L/R results but they changed them anyway.

 

[WiiM Team]

Who is confused? The issue is that my old stereo PEQ filters don't work correctly any more because the low frequencies are reduced since I joined this beta. A new algorithm for adding new independent L/R correction filters is not going to fix the issue with my original saved or manually input PEQ filters. Please confirm that this new algorithm resolved the issue with manually input stereo PEQ filters.

Hi Slartibartfast,

We’ve identified the likely cause of the issue: during the L/R channel measurement, the subwoofer’s volume level might differ significantly from that of the mono L/R levels, causing the low frequencies to be reduced. We’re currently looking into how to address this situation.