Could someone please explain how Fosi amps work?

[Iggy]

@Iggy

Here are the ingredients for good sound in order of importance (from most important to less important). All my own personal experience. Others will see it similarly or completely differently.

1. the quality of the recording. By this I expressly do NOT mean hi-res or not.
2. the sound quality of the playback room and how the speakers are placed there.
3. the quality of the speakers. This is by far the most important aspect of the technical system. If you are starting out, invest most of your budget in really good speakers. If you want to significantly improve an already decent chain, this will also only work with even better loudspeakers.
4. the quality of the amplifier and how well it harmonises with the speakers. Here, too, it usually pays off to spend a little more money.
5. the DAC. Opinions often differ here. Some prefer R2R DACs, others Delta Sigma. Modern amplifiers often have decent DACs built in, so you don't necessarily need an external device.
6. Nothing for a long time
7. all the other stuff like cables, power supplies etc.

Interestingly, most of the ‘voodoo’ discussions centre on the most insignificant points.
As I said before: All my personal opinion and experience. YMMV!

Thank you for taking the time to write this it’s much appreciated. It does align with what I’d assumed/hoped was the case but wasn’t sure and you really can get sucked into the ‘I need new gear’ mindset.

I’ve decided to get my new Dali Oberon 5’s set up with my existing WiiM Amp and see how it goes. If I still feel the need to upgrade the front end in a month or two, I’ll probably take a look at the new WiiM Amp Pro as that should be available in the UK by then.

Thanks again

 

[MCG555]

@Iggy

Here are the ingredients for good sound in order of importance (from most important to less important). All my own personal experience. Others will see it similarly or completely differently.

1. the quality of the recording. By this I expressly do NOT mean hi-res or not.
2. the sound quality of the playback room and how the speakers are placed there.
3. the quality of the speakers. This is by far the most important aspect of the technical system. If you are starting out, invest most of your budget in really good speakers. If you want to significantly improve an already decent chain, this will also only work with even better loudspeakers.
4. the quality of the amplifier and how well it harmonises with the speakers. Here, too, it usually pays off to spend a little more money.
5. the DAC. Opinions often differ here. Some prefer R2R DACs, others Delta Sigma. Modern amplifiers often have decent DACs built in, so you don't necessarily need an external device.
6. Nothing for a long time
7. all the other stuff like cables, power supplies etc.

Interestingly, most of the ‘voodoo’ discussions centre on the most insignificant points.
As I said before: All my personal opinion and experience. YMMV!

Personally I found Nr. 2 the most underestimated!
(Nr. 1 can sometimes be a given)
It is really worth digging in here! Things like distance between speakers and walls. 30 or 70 cms can make a HUGE difference if it comes to soundstage etc.

 

[Mr Ee]

Dali Oberon 5’s set up with my existing WiiM Amp and see how it goes.

If you haven't already, I can heartily recommend playing around with Room Correction / EQ.
More on this later...

 

[Valerio]

I wouldn't just consider one person's opinion. There is very little that goes wrong in the DAC of the WiiM amplifier, the Mission 778X uses the same one.

Mission 778x to a circuit and engineering apparatus much much superior to Wiim ... Do you think the chip alone makes a box sound good??? And the whole circuit as a whole that makes the difference including the power stage... don't say that wiim is the same as Mission or higher just because they use the same ESS CHIP.. You can see on many sites the difference between Mission and Wiim inside them in how they are built and it doesn't take long to understand the differences.

 

[d6jg]

Thank you for taking the time to write this it’s much appreciated. It does align with what I’d assumed/hoped was the case but wasn’t sure and you really can get sucked into the ‘I need new gear’ mindset.

I’ve decided to get my new Dali Oberon 5’s set up with my existing WiiM Amp and see how it goes. If I still feel the need to upgrade the front end in a month or two, I’ll probably take a look at the new WiiM Amp Pro as that should be available in the UK by then.

Thanks again

I have just upgraded some speakers to KEF Q550s which are similar budget and performance to the Dali Oberon 5s. I have paired them with a Mission 778X and the combination sounds awesome. The Mission's onboard DAC is pretty good IMHO.

Back in the 70s someone told me the spend ratio for turntable, amp and speakers should be 1:1:2. I think they were broadly correct.

 

[slartibartfast]

Mission 778x to a circuit and engineering apparatus much much superior to Wiim ... Do you think the chip alone makes a box sound good??? And the whole circuit as a whole that makes the difference including the power stage... don't say that wiim is the same as Mission or higher just because they use the same ESS CHIP.. You can see on many sites the difference between Mission and Wiim inside them in how they are built and it doesn't take long to understand the differences.

OK. One of the main differences is one is Class AB and the other Class D.

 

[pieterv1]

Why is there such a disgusting faith in DACs here in the forum (and many others)? I will never understand it.
Yes, DACs are important parts of the playback chain. But modern DACs are almost universally very good. To say that the DAC in the WiiM amp is too bad to be used with better speakers is ridiculous. Sorry!

Yes people saying they hear a night & day difference between a 80$ SMSL SU-1 and the WiiM Ultra's built-in DAC I find very hard to believe. Amir's test results on Audio Science Review confirm that the Ultra is excellent and measures pretty much identical to the SU-1.

 

[dangermouse]

Why is there such a disgusting faith in DACs here in the forum (and many others)? I will never understand it.
Yes, DACs are important parts of the playback chain. But modern DACs are almost universally very good. To say that the DAC in the WiiM amp is too bad to be used with better speakers is ridiculous. Sorry!

Why indeed? It seems to be part of the "Golden Ears" mindset. I think some people need to get out more.

 

[Iggy]

I have just upgraded some speakers to KEF Q550s which are similar budget and performance to the Dali Oberon 5s. I have paired them with a Mission 778X and the combination sounds awesome. The Mission's onboard DAC is pretty good IMHO.

Back in the 70s someone told me the spend ratio for turntable, amp and speakers should be 1:1:2. I think they were broadly correct.

Thanks for your reply, could I ask what streamer you’re using with the 778x please?

 

[d6jg]

Thanks for your reply, could I ask what streamer you’re using with the 778x please?

I’m currently using a Raspberry Pi (in a fancy case) with USB to the Mission but considering replacing this with a WiiM Pro /Pro+ and Coax or Optical. Whatever it is will not be visible so Ultra would be a waste of money.
The Pi is running piCorePlayer for LMS use and sounds superb but does need restarting from time to time when Squeezelite can’t see the USB DAC if the amp is in standby. This wouldn’t be an issue over Optical or Coax.
If replaced with a WiiM it will still be for LMS use.

 

[Iggy]

I’m currently using a Raspberry Pi (in a fancy case) with USB to the Mission but considering replacing this with a WiiM Pro /Pro+ and Coax or Optical. Whatever it is will not be visible so Ultra would be a waste of money.
The Pi is running piCorePlayer for LMS use and sounds superb but does need restarting from time to time when Squeezelite can’t see the USB DAC if the amp is in standby. This wouldn’t be an issue over Optical or Coax.
If replaced with a WiiM it will still be for LMS use.

Thank you for your reply, but I’m afraid I’m the wrong side of 50 and you lost me after the word Optical .

If I did go down the 778x route I’d probably get an ultra, if I got the pro or pro + I’d be forever thinking I was missing something?

 

[d6jg]

Thank you for your reply, but I’m afraid I’m the wrong side of 50 and you lost me after the word Optical .

If I did go down the 778x route I’d probably get an ultra, if I got the pro or pro + I’d be forever thinking I was missing something?

I’m the wrong side of 60!

Does Toslink instead of Optical mean more to you?
In my scenario I would be bypassing the WiiM DAC and sending digital to the Mission to be decoded by the Mission’s DAC.
I won’t be able to see the Ultra’s screen and not using its slightly better DAC so the Pro or Pro+ will work fine (acknowledging that the measurers have said as a digital transport only the Ultra is still superior). I listen with my 60+ tarnished ears and not with a tape measure.