WiiM Pro with Fosi BT20A query

[Wiimer]

There was no mention about it coming with a remote control when I bought mine in March, and May this year, and there was a 15% off offer, so I ended up paying £126.65 each time.

I can't find the remote in the accessories section of the current catalog, but if it is standard with the remote, would be happy.
(WiiM's product catalog may be out of date and not updated.)


@WiiM Support , @RyanWithWiim,

Can you confirm if current Pro comes with a remote?

 

[Erebus]

No. This is a list of services that are currently available directly on the WiiM app.

View attachment 14183
View attachment 14184

However, it should be possible to play RadioApp on WiiM using AirPlay or Chromecast.

Further to this, it appears our local stations are also on TuneIn, so that solves that query, assuming the free version works from the WiiM App.

I replied to you earlier but deleted it as I had the wrong info. I'll try again!

I'm also exploring the possibility of the WiiM Mini as a more affordable option to add WiFi streaming to my little setup. However, I note that the input and output I would need to use will require RCA to 3.5/3.5 to RCA as I have no optical input on the amp.

Would connecting the CD player to the WiiM, and then the WiiM to the amp this way reduce the sound quality at all? And if so, would it be the same for streaming music as well? I have no knowledge of what an RCA to Aux and vice versa would do to sound quality.

Also, it appears there is no option to Google Cast with the WiiM Mini, so for anything that came from the iPad this would have to be done via AirPlay, which I assume is of a similar quality to Google Cast? It won't really matter that I couldn't cast from my other Android devices as I usually only use the iPad Mini for music and Music Streaming Apps, which if I get a WiiM, I will be able to use the apps from the WiiM Home App instead, direct from the service's servers.

So it boils down to whether there is any reduction in CD sound quality having it go through the WiiM in the 3.5 to RCA connections, and whether the AirPlay streaming with this same connection method will be better than the Bluetooth I am using currently. What are your thoughts?

 

[Erebus]

I can't find the remote in the accessories section of the current catalog, but if it is standard with the remote, would be happy.
(WiiM's product catalog may be out of date and not updated.)


@WiiM Support , @RyanWithWiim,

Can you confirm if current Pro comes with a remote?

As per my post above, I may go with the Mini instead, but I was interested in your thoughts on my queries if you have the time.

 

[Mr Ee]

it appears there is no option to Google Cast with the WiiM Mini

Correct, the mini doesn't have chromecast.

AirPlay, which I assume is of a similar quality to Google Cast?

No, not similar! Airplay is lossy, chromecast is not.

reduction in CD sound quality having it go through the WiiM in the 3.5 to RCA connections,

imo, the mini and the pro's analog outputs are 'less than ideal'. Add to that the also 'not as good as it could be' conversion from analog to digital by using the mini/pro's analog input and I'd suggest that it may not sound as good as directly from the cd player's analog output to your amp.
However, by applying some eq / peq / room correction in the wim (mini doesn't have room correction) this may be improved.

whether the AirPlay streaming with this same connection method will be better than the Bluetooth

Probably very little in it.

 

[Wiimer]

As per my post above, I may go with the Mini instead, but I was interested in your thoughts on my queries if you have the time.

I agree with @Mr Ee

The Mini comes with a 3.5mm to 2RCA conversion cable.

 

[Erebus]

I agree with @Mr Ee

The Mini comes with a 3.5mm to 2RCA conversion cable.

Oh, okay. Sorry to bother you. No WiiM for me right now then.

 

[Wiimer]

Oh, okay. Sorry to bother you. No WiiM for me right now then.

If you are currently happy with your BT20A, I would prefer that too, and there is no need to rush as WiiM products are constantly evolving and releasing new devices.

 

[Erebus]

If you are currently happy with your BT20A, I would prefer that too, and there is no need to rush as WiiM products are constantly evolving and releasing new devices.

If I may clarify something please: I understand that the 3.5 to RCA input and output will degrade the CD music quality, but would that also be the case with the WiFi streaming? I guess I could change the CD player and WiiM inputs into the amp as needed or add a switch rather than have the CD player going through the WiiM. But if the 3.5 to RCA input into the amp would be no better than current Bluetooth streaming direct to the amp, then I guess my idea is dead in the water.

 

[Mr Ee]

For me, the very limiting factor here is the quality of the mini (and pro) analog output.
For me, this translates into a dull and boring music experience.
Unfortunately, the only way for you to compare the wiim analog out to bluetooth direct to the amp would be to try it for yourself.
If you lived close to me I'd lend you a mini!!

 

[Erebus]

If you lived close to me I'd lend you a mini!!

Thank you, that's very kind of you. I guess only having RCA inputs on my amp doesn't help. I assume they are Analog? So digital would be Optical or Coaxial?

 

[Mr Ee]

I assume they are Analog? So digital would be Optical or Coaxial?

Correct.

 

[Mr Ee]

I guess only having RCA inputs on my amp doesn't help

Again, my opinion, nothing wrong with only rca inputs on an amp, but I don't believe the mini/pro do justice to any rca input because I don't think their analog output is good and for not too much more money can be significantly bettered.

 

[Erebus]

Again, my opinion, nothing wrong with only rca inputs on an amp, but I don't believe the mini/pro do justice to any rca input because I don't think their analog output is good and for not too much more money can be significantly bettered.

Thank you again. I think I understand now. So the Analog outputs from the WiiM Pro Plus are a better option?

 

[Mr Ee]

Thank you again. I think I understand now. So the Analog outputs from the WiiM Pro Plus are a better option?

So it's here I confess that I don't have a pro plus But by many accounts it's a significant improvement over the pro and somewhat comparable to an ultra despite the different dac chips used.
But I do have an Ultra and a few other dacs at various price points (200 to 2000 aud), and to me they all sound significantly different (read better) than the mini/pro analog outputs.
As an aside, I tried a mini / pro / ultra optical outs into one of those dacs and I bet I probably couldn't tell them apart if I wasn't looking, although I thought the mini wasn't quite as good.

 

[Burnside]

As an aside, I tried a mini / pro / ultra optical outs into one of those dacs and I bet I probably couldn't tell them apart if I wasn't looking, although I thought the mini wasn't quite as good.

Yeah, I'd hate to admit my £3.5K Linn MDSM/4 was indistinguishable from my Ultra, but I'd be surprised if I could tell them apart. It's not helped by the fact that my Ultra feeds into the Linn's USB

At some point, I maybe could rescue my very old Audiolab 8000A amp from the attic (if it's still operational) and connect that up to my speakers, but the effort and disruption that would cause frankly isn't worth it as I really would be hard pushed to hear a difference given my hearing...

 

[Hazenhart]

Assuming that remotes can be paired to new devices, I have four Pro+ remotes that I would happily donate to a person in need.

 

[slartibartfast]

Yeah, I'd hate to admit my £3.5K Linn MDSM/4 was indistinguishable from my Ultra, but I'd be surprised if I could tell them apart. It's not helped by the fact that my Ultra feeds into the Linn's USB

At some point, I maybe could rescue my very old Audiolab 8000A amp from the attic (if it's still operational) and connect that up to my speakers, but the effort and disruption that would cause frankly isn't worth it as I really would be hard pushed to hear a difference given my hearing...

My Audiolab 8000A is also in the loft with my Topping E30, Squeezebox Touch and Raspberry Pi with Squeezelite. All replaced by a WiiM Amp. It is still very much operational but really needs replacement RCA connectors since most of them have crumbled.

 

[Erebus]

So it's here I confess that I don't have a pro plus

No problem; your knowledge far exceeds my own so I respect your opinion.

I understand that my best advice is to get a WiiM Pro Plus. I was originally going to get the WiiM Amp, but for a variety of reasons I felt the $500 spend was a bit of risk and instead got a very well reviewed Fosi BT20A for $80 instead. It appears to work very well with my CD player and Q3010i speakers, and the Bluetooth receiver seems excellent as well, but of course there is no app and no WiFi streaming, which I've been told is of better quality. So getting a suitable WiiM product will fill the void of no app and no WiFi streaming, and given I already have an amp, something like a Mini, Pro or Pro Plus would be ideal. (The Ultra is not currently affordable for me.)

However, I am limited by input and output options, and analog in and out on the Mini or WiiM Pro I now understand is not ideal for my CD player, and I might not notice any difference with WiFi streaming over Bluetooth. So the apparent choice is the WiiM Pro Plus. That being the case, I would connect my CD player to the Pro Plus via optical, but connection from the WiiM to the amp would still be via RCA as the BT20A has no other inputs.

So given that the WiiM Pro Plus will still need to be connected to the amp via analog, will the CD and WiFi streaming music still be degraded as with the WiiM Mini and the WiiM Pro? Or put simply, will I get the same sound quality as I have now with the CD connected direct to the amp and it's Bluetooth streaming? Or will it be less, or will it be better with the WiiM Pro Plus?

 

[Wiimer]

If I may clarify something please: I understand that the 3.5 to RCA input and output will degrade the CD music quality, but would that also be the case with the WiFi streaming? I guess I could change the CD player and WiiM inputs into the amp as needed or add a switch rather than have the CD player going through the WiiM. But if the 3.5 to RCA input into the amp would be no better than current Bluetooth streaming direct to the amp, then I guess my idea is dead in the water.

I am not an expert, so I apologize if I am wrong.
I will change my perspective a little and compare the sound quality of each device from measurements. Here is a simple SINAD comparison.

WiiM mini
Wi-Fi (from Airplay) >> Analog out = 88dB
Wi-Fi (from WiiM app) >> Analog out = 90dB
AUX in >> Analog out = 81dB

WiiM Mini Review (Streamer)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Mini Wifi/Bluetooth streamer. It is on kind loan from a member and is on sale on Amazon for US $89. As you can see the former factor is a "hockey puck." An included phone charger needs to be used to power the unit over USB-C. It did not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Fosi BT 20A
RCA in >> Speaker Out = 68dB (?)
(Nominal value: THD=0.04%, SNR=98dB)

Fosi BT 20A pro
RCA in >> Speaker Out = 83dB

Fosi Audio BT20A Pro Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Fosi Audio BT20A stereo class D amplifier based on TI TPA3255 IC. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $99.99 with 32 volt power supply. Despite its low cost, the case gives a feeling of quality. I am not usually fan of tone controls in...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Bluetooth
AAC = 83dB

Topping BC3 Review (Bluetooth Receiver) & BT CODECs

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping BC3 Bluetooth receiver and headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the online seller, Yaoyaotiger HIFI Audio Store and costs US $69. This is a follow up to our previous tests of Bluetooth receivers and investigating performance of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

From these results, the weakest point in my opinion is the BT20A, followed by the Mini's ADC.

 

[Hazenhart]

However, I am limited by input and output options, and analog in and out on the Mini or WiiM Pro I now understand is not ideal for my CD player, and I might not notice any difference with WiFi streaming over Bluetooth. So the apparent choice is the WiiM Pro Plus. That being the case, I would connect my CD player to the Pro Plus via optical, but connection from the WiiM to the amp would still be via RCA as the BT20A has no other inputs.

So given that the WiiM Pro Plus will still need to be connected to the amp via analog, will the CD and WiFi streaming music still be degraded as with the WiiM Mini and the WiiM Pro? Or put simply, will I get the same sound quality as I have now with the CD connected direct to the amp and it's Bluetooth streaming? Or will it be less, or will it be better with the WiiM Pro Plus?

Unless I have misunderstood your configuration options, it seems to me that your ideal configuration would be:

CD > optical > Pro+ > RCA > amp

This takes advantage of the widely recognized high quality DAC in the Pro+.
WiFi streaming via the Pro+ would also take advantage of this.
So no, no degradation. Yes, it will be better this way.