Features wanted in a Wiim Ultra 2

[Burnside]

Hmmm they both control the WiiM Ultra... and they both are called WiiM Home programs.

It should be a high priority as this is after all a streamer... and it requires some front end control software.

They’ve been in beta for so long with only minimal improvement, so rather than throw good development after bad (or not so good ), they should perhaps invest in developing an html-based front end that can be run on any platform as has been previously suggested.

 

[Kblade97]

you can PM me. I can describe my listening setups.

BTW, one of my current projects has been to op amp roll my Pearl 3 phono preamplifier. I got like 12 or so op amps. We can start in there... you will hear the difference.

Then the amps and speakers... I can bring out more and more and more... and trust me, you WILL hear it.

And trust me... nothing of mine is particularly expensive. I mean nothing is CHEAP either. But it's a matter of knowing what to get and how to get it. I tend to buy used or DIY. The best, of course, is buying used DIY. You just need to know what you're doing.

And you keep going back about "modern DACs" being transparent.

What exactly is "modern"... what exactly is "transparent"? Those are loaded terms.

I got a Burson Swing DAC on my main system right now. It's a few years old, got it on sale then for about 550 bucks with the V4 op amps, has several filters ( I use the default filter ) and is set up to roll the op amps. Currently I got the Burson Vivid V7s on it. I also have the Classic V7, the Vivid and Classic V6, the V5 and V4 as well. I can tell you the sound changes quite a bit... even though the DAC section is playing the same music and with the same filter selection.

Like I keep trying to tell you, it the ANALOG SECTION of the DAC that matters the most once you have reached a certain performance plateau. and you can hear it clearly.

And, 500 bucks is, in my experience, the point at which you reach this plateau.

You might notice that I'm quoting specific components.. you might want to search the Internet about them and see what people say about them.

Anyway, I think we've gone far off.... if you want to discuss this, PM me and we can discuss this. IMHO, what the WiiM Ultra needs is:

No phono preamp
Balanced analog outputs
Updated analog output circuits - capable of op amp rolling.
Optional linear power supply

Better WiiM Home software.

Keep the price under 400 bucks.

Well said, I would agree wholeheartedly. Pictures for giggles

 

[TonyE]

I got an email overnight... this is the specs for the Uber Expensive Gold Note streamer....

DS-1000 EVO | Gold Note

The DS-1000 Evo is the new generation Streamer DAC, designed to reach new frontiers of digital audio experience: it represents the pinnacle of high-end digital sources.

www.goldnote.it

Notice what it says..

Streaming is as easy as pressing play on Tidal thanks to Tidal Connect, or simply connecting your computer with a USB cable – no audio file will be a problem, supporting MQA, PCM (up to 32bit/384kHz) and DSD (up to DSD512).

I think this is what is missing in the Ultra... an input USB to serve as a sound card to a computer or mobile device.

@Kblade97 I know that turntable.... hmm... SME with 309? Very nice. It's been a while since I heard one. What is the cartridge?

I'll send you picture of my LP12. But as typical of the LP12, it's an underwhelming show... LP12, Keel, Karousel, Trampolin 2, Lingo, Ekos 2.. I had someone in my house... not an audiophile but who wants to get a turntable for his wife. We listened, he loved it... then I asked him to guess the cost... Even my cost, which took me like 30 years to get to this point, buying used and open stock... He guessed it was like 1000 bucks.

Maybe it's time to get a Mitchel Gyro... now those LOOK fancy!

 

[Kblade97]

People claim that the Raspberry can run Amazon Music.

We run Tidal HiFi.

In fact, the reason I got the WiiM Ultra is because Android and Chromebook do not offer bit perfect audio - they reclock the signal over the USB-OTG interface. By using audio over IP to the WiiM and then USB to DAC I get to see the Tidal HiFi data rates make it out to the DAC.

And my wife gets to play her Tidal HiFI in her tablets and Android phone to the audio in her home office and the HT in the den.

So, I bought four Ultras.... 1200 bucks to get bit perfect audio... and make my wife happy.

I thought it was a good deal.

In this respect, I want WiiM to make NO changes to their current device.

Hmm... you're from Scotland? Run... go get a Linn LP12 with the Keel and Karousel.... it will put this notion of digital music out of your head... my Linn is unique in my systems... Just one turntable to rule them all.

I got an email overnight... this is the specs for the Uber Expensive Gold Note streamer....

DS-1000 EVO | Gold Note

The DS-1000 Evo is the new generation Streamer DAC, designed to reach new frontiers of digital audio experience: it represents the pinnacle of high-end digital sources.

www.goldnote.it

Notice what it says..

Streaming is as easy as pressing play on Tidal thanks to Tidal Connect, or simply connecting your computer with a USB cable – no audio file will be a problem, supporting MQA, PCM (up to 32bit/384kHz) and DSD (up to DSD512).

I think this is what is missing in the Ultra... an input USB to serve as a sound card to a computer or mobile device.

@Kblade97 I know that turntable.... hmm... SME with 309? Very nice. It's been a while since I heard one. What is the cartridge?

I'll send you picture of my LP12. But as typical of the LP12, it's an underwhelming show... LP12, Keel, Karousel, Trampolin 2, Lingo, Ekos 2.. I had someone in my house... not an audiophile but who wants to get a turntable for his wife. We listened, he loved it... then I asked him to guess the cost... Even my cost, which took me like 30 years to get to this point, buying used and open stock... He guessed it was like 1000 bucks.

Maybe it's time to get a Mitchel Gyro... now those LOOK fancy!

The arm is a series V better bearings magnesium arm, cart is an entry Dynavector 10x5 V2. This beast is fun. I agree with all your points. Hope I don’t get in trouble for posting pictures of my turntables.

 

[TonyE]

Hmm... WTH... how many tables do you have?

A long time ago I settled down to a single LP12.... I'm really up there with expenses on it but it sounds so good. It's taken 35 years to get here.. so overall the cost is reasonable... although I took a huge hit this year: Ekos 2 (used), Keel (open box) and Ortofon Cadenza Black ( got a deal )....

I tried a Sorbothane disc damper eons ago... it truly kills the sound of the LP12... I got it on a Target TT5T stand... whatever they say about Linn... but their recommendations are spot on. I gave up on second guessing them. My table has exceptional "pace".

If I win the Lotto, I might get a Rega NAIA.

OK... back to the Ultra... no more talk about 5 figure TTs.

It's interesting that a $300 Ultra streamer with a $1000 DAC and a $400 Android Chromebook can coexist with a $20K TT set up... I still think the turntable sounds better though, it has a lot more palpability to the sound... but if I had to start over, I would not go this route. But, I got over 4000 LPs. so I'm all in.

 

[Kblade97]

Hmm... WTH... how many tables do you have?

A long time ago I settled down to a single LP12.... I'm really up there with expenses on it but it sounds so good. It's taken 35 years to get here.. so overall the cost is reasonable... although I took a huge hit this year: Ekos 2 (used), Keel (open box) and Ortofon Cadenza Black ( got a deal )....

I tried a Sorbothane disc damper eons ago... it truly kills the sound of the LP12... I got it on a Target TT5T stand... whatever they say about Linn... but their recommendations are spot on. I gave up on second guessing them. My table has exceptional "pace".

If I win the Lotto, I might get a Rega NAIA.

OK... back to the Ultra... no more talk about 5 figure TTs.

It's interesting that a $300 Ultra streamer with a $1000 DAC and a $400 Android Chromebook can coexist with a $20K TT set up... I still think the turntable sounds better though, it has a lot more palpability to the sound... but if I had to start over, I would not go this route. But, I got over 4000 LPs. so I'm all in.

I’ve had the SME 10 series 5 arm for over 25 years. And the VPI classic four, with gimbal arm about 2 1/2 to 3 years. I have more turntables, but I like my digital too. But I never stopped listening to R2R or records. And I keep collecting. I love all formats. Look up at the top left on my audio rack and you’ll see a Basis Debut with vacuum and a Vector Tonearm with a Urishi cart, it’s covered so hard to make out. So i’m still invested. But if you would’ve told me just a decade ago that I could have a pair of really nice speakers and pair it with a $300 streamer and a $250 amp and be happy I would not have believed you. And that’s what I have in the Ultra and Vibelink, in a guest room. And I have another Ultra that I listen to in my theater room that I love, it fits right in. I’m hoping the WiiM will come out with another amp and use the purify or some other class D module. The only thing the vibelink doesn’t give me is that last bit of clarity/air that some of the mid level NAD’s do. I think it’s the amp and the analog stages. We’ll see what they come up with. It will be interesting. Go WiiM!

 

[TonyE]

Madman Across The Water.

I got all of his early LPs indeed.

Let me see.... 1500 LPs in there?

Dragon... I tossed the Akai GX-F95 about 20 years ago. I did keep the Quad Akai R2R but I don't play it. Just part of the museum in the closet.

Amps... Class A solid state... as rare output devices as you can imagine. I do have an NCore kit... once of these days... and the ICE modules have great damping factor but a soft treble. NAD monitors are nice... got three of them amps... or two.. I don't know. I think by now I got over 42 amps. Three more in the pipeline. Nothing is commercial.. no fun in that. OK, maybe a Nak PA7 Mk I for that Stasis sound?

 

[adias]

Time to get back on topic?!?

 

[TonyE]

OK... fair enough

Ultra, Same price. No additional price increase

1. Fix WiiM Home so that it works under Android, iPhones, Chromebook, Windows and Apple Macs, Make it consistent

Ultra Plus, (UP) 450 bucks.

2. Second USB port as input
3. Balanced analog outputs
4. Ability to run over the new input USB port as a "sound card"... without drivers, for Windows PCs, Android and Chromebooks
5. Keep current phono input

Non Plus Ultra (NPU), under 800 bucks

5. Updated DAC.
6. Updated analog outputs with analog volume control
7. Delete MM phono input (at this level, people will use their own phono preamps ).
8. Add second analog balanced input (allow both analog inputs to go through an ADC to the USB output port and directly to the analog outputs)
9. Single Ended (SE) Headphone outputs

Something like that will wipe out the Solos... but not quite reach the Schiit.

Now.. for kicks, Ultra Squared, 1400 bucks

10. Plug in card for USB with updated AD/DACs for further upgrades
11. Plug in card for analog IO... SE and balanced inputs, and SE and balanced outputs
12. SE and balanced headphone outputs

From my point of view, this is what I would like to see. The top one would make a fine preamp as well... it could be a very complete front end.

From there, you could see upgraded cards for AD/DAC and analog IO.

Think of how Schiit is mapping their products....

 

[Flatron7]

Azzeccato
Lo stadio analogico è così importante. Nessuno sembra mai menzionarlo. Preferirei un chip DAC di qualità inferiore e un ottimo stadio analogico, piuttosto che un ottimo DAC con uno stadio analogico scadente.

Totally agree

 

[Flatron7]

Good evening everyone, let me give my opinion: I think Wiim should create a new flagship like its competitors Eversolo and Bluesound, just to name a few. The flagship must have as its primary goal to sound significantly better than the current Ultra. I'd even be willing to spend more than €2,000 for a streamer/DAC/preamp that has the Wiim's magnificent features. I'd eliminate the phono stage. Everything else can be improved with a much higher budget.

 

[Kblade97]

There is room for a Wiim Ultra 2 and a Wiim Ultra 2 Plus.

I'm a minimalist if 1 product can deliver where 3 are otherwise needed.

I use a Fiio K11 R2R for its NOS DAC. Having experienced that NOS DAC I can't revert to using the Wiim DAC.

I'm currently using a Yamaha cx-1000 as the preamp with volume permanently on 100% and bypassing all tone controls purely for its superior quality gain - it knocks the socks off of the Wiim Ultra as a preamp. I'm going to be running the Schiit Kara as the replacement preamp if it proves better as it has XLR and RCA inputs and outputs, and converts it's RCA input to balanced (I've recently overcome ground loop buzz and realise XLR inputs and outputs are a worthy upgrade).

I've virtually been dragged kicking and screaming to these changes where the Wiim Ultra couldn't deliver and would definitely be prepared to pay equivalent to what these upgrades have cost me for this quality in a Wiim Ultra 2 Plus, where the less featured Wiim Ultra 2 caters for those happy to do without these features at a more reasonable price point.

And the reason you like the Yamaha and the Schiit is because of the analog stages in and out. IMHO Nobody ever mentions upgrading that part of the Ultra

 

[TonyE]

Hmm... read again. I made a point of bringing up upgrading the analog stages.... post #169 above.

When I bring up balanced outputs I implying updated analog stages.

 

[adias]

For a future Ultra streamer transport I suggest an external WiFi antenna to reduce RFI fields inside the case.

 

[LewBob]

I like my Wiim Ultra but would love to see the following in an updated version:
- A DAC chip one step up, like in the Amp Ultra
- XLR balanced out
- 4 or 5 inch screen
- Better pop and noise reduction via HDMI and Optical In
- No need for Phono In or Headphone Out
- All the other I/O ports can stay the same

This would be my dream DAC/media streamer and preamp.

What would you like in an altered version 2?

My only issues so far are remote related. I wish that WiiM remotes used IR also so I could use my legacy URC remotes the way I do with ROKU and AppleTV. I would also like to be able to have 2 remotes active at the same time on my Ultra.

 

[goodmore]

HDMI in and out. The ARC connection is like half a beer.

 

[Bill Mac]

HDMI in and out. The ARC connection is like half a beer.

Having an HDMI output so multichannel files can be played would be an excellent feature. I have an Eversolo DMP-A6 and the HDMI output is great for playing all my multichannel Blu-ray, DVD-A and SACD rips. Not sure about the need for an HDMI input though.

Having an additional USB-A port would be a nice addition as well. That way one can use one USB as an output and the other USB as an input to connect a USB hard drive. Then a USB hub would not be needed as I'm doing now.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Hmmm they both control the WiiM Ultra... and they both are called WiiM Home programs.

It should be a high priority as this is after all a streamer... and it requires some front end control software.

Absolutely. I use my set up sat at my desk, and using my PC to control everything would be significantly easier than using a phone or tablet.