Features wanted in a Wiim Ultra 2

[EddNog]

Hmm... you don't like the Mesh? I got the Multibit DAC with Unison USB and I love how they sound.

I was thinking of going to the Jotunheim 3 but maybe I should rethink it? Why don't you like it?

I mean, I could save a bit and then get the Yggdrasil Singular. For headphone amp... well, I do have a DIY Whammy (set for opamp rolling) and the Nitsch (with analog inputs) so I could use those for the headphones.

I'm reading into the Geshelli... thanks, interesting... but first, drivers coming in... shipping amp to get it fixed/updated. I think it overheated, we'll see.

Oh no, I absolutely love the Jotunheim 3 itself. It is easily the best head-amp I've owned; it destroys the L30 II I had prior (I did not yet own the Aeon 2s back when I had an L70 on hand). I did not understand just how good my Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noires could be until I got this amp. It's just Mesh that's a letdown; I much, MUCH preferred feeding Jot 3 from a Topping E50 II over the integrated Mesh card. I have a FiiO DM15 R2R coming in that I will try feeding the Jot 3 with to see how that goes.

-Ed

 

[TonyE]

The Nitsch has an upgraded analog circuit from the Jotunheim circuit. But it has the multibit DAC and unison USB as an option.

It runs about 750 bucks and it's only made in batches. I think he's about to release another batch. Have not seen any of them on the used market.

 

[EddNog]

The Nitsch has an upgraded analog circuit from the Jotunheim circuit. But it has the multibit DAC and unison USB as an option.

It runs about 750 bucks and it's only made in batches. I think he's about to release another batch. Have not seen any of them on the used market.

Technically, the Jot 3 will accept older DAC cards from the Jot 2, but I personally see no point in it for myself.

Anyhow--we are way, way off topic.

-Ed

 

[steadyshot]

I don’t think it makes sense to say specifically upgrade power supply , clocks , analogue stages with this and that etc … . We don’t know more than Wiim . Let them do their research and evaluation . We can only judge the usability of features and perceived sound quality

 

[TonyE]

I don’t think it makes sense to say specifically upgrade power supply , clocks , analogue stages with this and that etc … . We don’t know more than Wiim . Let them do their research and evaluation . We can only judge the usability of features and perceived sound quality

I think what makes sense is that we all want different things.... so likely a single upgrade is not for everybody.

My list is based upon my current equipment and how it sounds and what I'm willing to spend on convenience to have it all in one box.

Others have their own prioritites.

It's up to the project managers and marketing/sales guys to figure out which product(s) to fund. For that, they listen to their market. And in reality, as the customers, we do know more than WiiM.

Anyhow, what would you want in a WiiM Ultra?

 

[sNc]

It’s always xlr balanced being requested when it does not improve sound quality. It matters if they running a long distance but amp and streamer are next to each other for most setup. We have too many rookie in this forum.

It's not even / only about improving the sound. Some people already have XLR cables and other devices uses XLR (in some cases only XLR)

I know I said that before, but no matter what, I would not like to see the Wiim Ultra v2 taller. It could be wider

 

[steadyshot]

I think what makes sense is that we all want different things.... so likely a single upgrade is not for everybody.

My list is based upon my current equipment and how it sounds and what I'm willing to spend on convenience to have it all in one box.

Others have their own prioritites.

It's up to the project managers and marketing/sales guys to figure out which product(s) to fund. For that, they listen to their market. And in reality, as the customers, we do know more than WiiM.

Anyhow, what would you want in a WiiM Ultra?

A high quality , very good sounding streaming dac and transport ( better than the competition) , reliable build quality that will last for many years, with great usability and support . I will leave it as general as that . The price point I am ready to pay if it is worth it is up to 600 euro .

 

[ByteCurious]

I would rather have a Dirac Live equivalent to the Room Correction. Or maybe add 2.1 Dirac Live in the future. But Dirac charges an arm and a leg.

 

[ByteCurious]

Full MiniDSP capabilities with DIRAC options

 

[TonyE]

Full MiniDSP capabilities with DIRAC options

And then it'll cost.... 600 for the Ultra and 1000 for the software licenses.... to be honest, I'd rather not do any room correction in the Ultra as that implies something modyfing the data in the music files.

 

[mlsstl]

And then it'll cost.... 600 for the Ultra and 1000 for the software licenses.... to be honest, I'd rather not do any room correction in the Ultra as that implies something modyfing the data in the music files.

Not sure of your point about not wanting the WiiM to do any room correction.

Are you saying you want no room correction at all or just want it done at a different spot? Whether DIRAC or internally in the WiiM, both are manipulating digital data with DIRAC just being a fancier version of what the WiiM is doing.

So, if you do room correction before an external DAC, digital data is still being modified. If you do it after the DAC, then you are either doing it in analog or it's running through an ADC, being digitally corrected, and run through a second DAC. It makes no sense to convert digital to analog and then back to digital for processing before going analog a second time.

 

[EddNog]

Not sure of your point about not wanting the WiiM to do any room correction.

Are you saying you want no room correction at all or just want it done at a different spot? Whether DIRAC or internally in the WiiM, both are manipulating digital data with DIRAC just being a fancier version of what the WiiM is doing.

So, if you do room correction before an external DAC, digital data is still being modified. If you do it after the DAC, then you are either doing it in analog or it's running through an ADC, being digitally corrected, and run through a second DAC. It makes no sense to convert digital to analog and then back to digital for processing before going analog a second time.

He’s a purist.

-Ed

 

[TonyE]

Aaa... mean....

I use the WiiM solely as a bridge between Android/Chromebook and the USB DAC. Preserves the bit perfect interface all the way to the DAC. Currently both Android and Chromebooks reclock the bit rates. As it now stands, yes, I'm getting more and more purist.

Less is indeed more. Took out out the tube preamp out from between the DAC and the amp made the sound much more cleaner. Used the preamp built into the headphone amp in the DAC... it can swing a lot of volts...

There is always a risk, of course... amp might be over biased (ooops), overheats (ratz!) and blows itself AND whatever is hooked up to it (wideband driver).

Purist for sure... (OK, I am planning to bass waveform the office, but only between 30 and 80 Hz. I don't need no auto correlation. And.. thing is, I change stuff around.. so I would be constantly changing settings.

 

[mlsstl]

Aaa... mean....

Well, good luck then! Hope you get what you're after. For me, the WiiM's room correction feature made a nice improvement to the sound and I'm enjoying listening to my system more than ever.

 

[TonyE]

Yep... I think we all want different things for the Ultra Mk II.

I suppose this is good for the WiiM group... just make sure to have the Ultra Cryo... with cryogenic cabling and a graphic of the Tice Clock on the screen.

 

[Persona Grata]

Linkplay's modus operandi for the WiiM line is innovative and good sounding mid-range HiFi-products at a reasonable price. We will never get a $1000-2000 combined DAC/preamp/media streamer. There are other players in that catergory. As the original poster of this thread I would like to repeat my main initial wishes with some small adjustments to get a better and updated version of the Wiim Ultra without breaking the $4-500 barrier:

- A DAC-chip one step up. My suggestion is the AKM AK4497S (same as in Topping E50 II). It's perfect and very cost saving). I have used this DAC and it gives all you'll ever need in a good quality DAC. AKM DAC-chips have very balanced frequency output with good transients and minimal sibilants. Better than all the ESS chips I have tested.
- XLR balanced out. For ease of use with amplifiers without singel ended RCA + gives possibility for fully differential construction.
- Keep the screen size and cabinet to save costs. No need to use more money here to changing screen quality and size.
- Better noise reduction throughout all signal paths internal and external. Here is much to be improved from the original Ultra model.
- No need for Phono In or Headphone Out. Too expensive to include good quality MM phone and headphone amps. Good and reasonable priced stand-alones exist.
- Include a few more I/O ports as a compensation for excluding Phono and Headphone amp.
- Support for eARC would be great but not mandatory. I use it with ARC and Dolby Digital 5.1 with two WiiM Sound Lite speakers as surround L/R-speakers and it works pretty good. Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby Atmos support would be great, but maybe it is difficult to implement wireless and at a reasonable price level.
- Apple Airplay, not for me, but will increase the sales to a lot more people, especially Appleheads. Maybe this is also to pricey, with Apple license fee.

This WiiM Ultra 2 will sell as hot cakes. There are few, if any, competitors for such a nice combined product at a reasonable price.

 

[TonyE]

What you want is strictly a mid fi unit. What many of us want is a better sounding Ultra... understanding the price will go up.

I still want the WiiM Plus Ultra, Non Plus Ultra and Cryo Ultra.

At their price point, there is definitely room for improvement. The E50 is strictly mass market. The D50 is slightly upmarket.... I have the D90LE... and it's OK, I still think there are better sounding for even a lower price. I haven't heard the D90-III nor the Schitt Mesh, I really like the Schitt multibit DAC.

The point of having a headphone amplifier is to provide a good buffer for the analog preamp out. If you want to use the Ultra as a DAC/preamp you are going to have to have such... so the plug for the headphone is dirt cheap and will gather quite a few sales.

Ideally, they could make the Ultra to accept some plug in cards, Schitt (and Nitsch) do that. Then people could upgrade their unit as they see fit.

Something else.... btw... I've become very sensitive to hearing out of balance signals. This started when I got two preamps that have different gain controls for left and right and realized that just a little change truly shifts the soundstage left or right. When you look at most devices you find out that there will be as much as 0.5db of mistracking between channels, and this changes soundstage... the mistracking also is affected by volume control.

Only with resistor ladders or very high quality pots do you get away from this... but this is also an expensive solution, both the pots and resistors need to be of high quality and very tight tolerances... in some ways this is what marks High End from the mass market.

Note: I don't use the analog preamp outputs of the Ultra...

 

[EddNog]

What you want is strictly a mid fi unit. What many of us want is a better sounding Ultra... understanding the price will go up.

I still want the WiiM Plus Ultra, Non Plus Ultra and Cryo Ultra.

At their price point, there is definitely room for improvement. The E50 is strictly mass market. The D50 is slightly upmarket.... I have the D90LE... and it's OK, I still think there are better sounding for even a lower price. I haven't heard the D90-III nor the Schitt Mesh, I really like the Schitt multibit DAC.

The point of having a headphone amplifier is to provide a good buffer for the analog preamp out. If you want to use the Ultra as a DAC/preamp you are going to have to have such... so the plug for the headphone is dirt cheap and will gather quite a few sales.

Ideally, they could make the Ultra to accept some plug in cards, Schitt (and Nitsch) do that. Then people could upgrade their unit as they see fit.

I find the Mesh card in my Jotunheim 3 pretty, "meh." Absolutely not in the same league as some of my current or previous DACs (Denafrips Ares II, Geshelli JNOG3 Pro, Musician Drago, SMSL D400 Pro, FiiO K9 AKM, Topping D90 III Discrete, Topping D90 III Sabre).

As a matter of fact, I significantly preferred two DACs that you'd probably consider, "strictly mass market," over my Jotunheim 3's Mesh card, and those would be the Topping E50 II and the FiiO DM15 R2R acting as USB DAC, both feeding balanced into the Jotunheim 3 to drive my Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire, so arguably tested under precisely the same conditions.

-Ed

 

[TonyE]

Yeah... I've thought about the FiiO K9... What I like about the D90 is the balanced output. I got my D90LE used for 400 bucks so I really "like" that...

It's good to hear you opinion of the Mesh... the Multibit with Unison sounds pretty good... perhaps this can be expected as the Mesh is 40%
cheaper than the Multibit. I keep thinking about the Yggdrasil Cingular... ay...

In my main system I have the old Burson Swing because I can roll the opamps and that makes a HUGE difference to the sound. I've thought about modifying the D90LE so I can roll opamps too and then try it out ( I could use its balanced outputs ). Right now I have the Burson Vivid V7s in there.

I strongly believe that the sound of the DAC, once you've gotten a good enough DAC, is related to the power supply (noise) and the analog output section.

 

[harkpabst]

I want a better phono input for the next gen Ultra.