It's time to evolve into new Flagship

[canard]

Without necessarily thinking about upgrading for Wiim (who will do what they want anyway ;-) ) etc.,

we can see that everyone will have a little idea of what relevant optimizations of current models could be like with the benefit of hindsight... "mk2" versions... without necessarily excessive additional cost or moving away from their current hardware positioning, inputs/outputs...

(I'm not talking about accessories... like large panoramic screens, box, etc., which generally justify a hefty price increase, easily marketed...These are things that cost a little more, but allow you to sell them for much more... much more... ;-))
;-)
( Then I pointed out revisions more related to the age of their products...example mini in end of 21 etc)

 

[canard]

To be more frank, (to follow them for almost 4 years), I think Wiim lacks the skills and experience regarding audio hardware and audio topics to tackle the high-end market. They're learning, which is normal.
(although on some subjects it remains really difficult to understand )


But also, nothing would prevent them from calling on resources, consultants, subcontractors, or partners better equipped in these areas.

But would it be relevant in relation to their image, their positioning, and a certain lag behind established players?
I don't know.

We mustn't forget that we can consider another angle... Linkplay, the "parent" company, a smart, subcontracting audio brand...

;-)

 

[claudia.bailey]

Thank you very much, Claudia, and have a nice day to you too!

Please understand, no one is calling for discontinuing current products. You're absolutely right. But cheap doesn't mean bad, and the Wiim proved that. Flagships are made for image, so it could be even better. Believe me, for the right price, many will buy them, and they'll even switch from other brands. To each according to their capabilities and needs.

I agree that when I made the previous comment, I wasn't thinking about them discontinuing their current products. The higher you go in price, the more you have to come up with a good reason for people to buy your products over more established brands. WiiM are very popular, but let's be honest, that's also because they are a lot cheaper than most. They mostly get reviewed as the best bang for your buck products or a no-brainer for the price. If they are going to do this, maybe, as I said before, they should create a sub-brand. Cheaper does not mean bad, but WiiM have made the price of their products a bit of a standout feature.

 

[Smartplug]

The measurements on ultra is good as it’s gets similar to high cost unit. If a user is not happy on sound they may want to tinker eq or use roomfit with different curve. Everyone hearing is different what’s sound good to you maybe dull or brighter to others. Sounds is personal matter.

 

[canard]

The measurements on ultra is good as it’s gets similar to high cost unit. If a user is not happy on sound they may want to tinker eq or use roomfit with different curve. Everyone hearing is different what’s sound good to you maybe dull or brighter to others. Sounds is personal matter.

Are you referring to the approaches and measurements used on ASR for the "high-end" model? Is that right?
Even with a slight inconsistency in this same approach, which, depending on the position of asr, there wouldn't be any difference between an Ultra and a "Plus" model?
And no difference between an Ultra or "Plus" model and the machines (generally Chinese, which have adopted the same measurement methods for long time now) that measure even better...?
like the """Sinad 1K -123dB""""?

So... these measurements across all these machines would be of no real interest, wouldn't they?
The results being "expected"... or even useless?
;-)
What's the point of continuing to develop and measure new machines "dac" based on these principles...? Except perhaps to boost sales, or even keep "ASR" afloat around these products...? "Still fantastic..."

Everyone who frequents the ASR website has realized this situation for several years now... somewhat ironic.
;-)

 

[Aquaman]

Are you referring to the approaches and measurements used on ASR for the "high-end" model? Is that right?
Even with a slight inconsistency in this same approach, which, depending on the position of asr, there wouldn't be any difference between an Ultra and a "Plus" model?
And no difference between an Ultra or "Plus" model and the machines (generally Chinese, which have adopted the same measurement methods for long time now) that measure even better...?
like the """Sinad 1K -123dB""""?

So... these measurements across all these machines would be of no real interest, wouldn't they?
The results being "expected"... or even useless?
;-)
What's the point of continuing to develop and measure new machines based on these principles...? Except perhaps to boost sales, or even keep "ASR" afloat around these products...? "Still fantastic..."

Everyone who frequents the ASR website has realized this situation for several years now... somewhat ironic.
;-)

I wouldn‘t buy anything just because it measured well on ASR. But if it measured badly I‘d be wary none the less. ASR is ONE source of information but my ultimate choice will mostly be influenced by features and my limited experience.
BTW the latter tells me that the WiiM UA does not have 200w into 4ohms. At least not in the way that I am used to - from using amps, not measuring them.

 

[slartibartfast]

BTW the latter tells me that the WiiM UA does not have 200w into 4ohms. At least not in the way that I am used to - from using amps, not measuring them.

That is probably due to low gain. You would get 200W if you played a full amplitude sine wave . Using Replaygain reduces the maximum power as well.

 

[dominikz]

That is probably due to low gain. You would get 200W if you played a full amplitude sine wave . Using Replaygain reduces the maximum power as well.

It is worth mentioning that gain can be increased with the per-input Pre-Gain control, if needed. With this it is possible to make better use of available power - even with relatively low-volume sources.

 

[Aquaman]

That is probably due to low gain. You would get 200W if you played a full amplitude sine wave . Using Replaygain reduces the maximum power as well.

No ReplayGain or anything else involved, just a direct comparison (not ABX) with my previous TDAI 2170 rated 170 w.
The TDAI blows the AmpUltra off the edge of a cliff at the turn of the volume knob.

 

[slartibartfast]

No ReplayGain or anything else involved, just a direct comparison (not ABX) with my previous TDAI 2170 rated 170 w.
The TDAI blows the AmpUltra off the edge of a cliff at the turn of the volume knob.

So it has higher gain then.

 

[Aquaman]

So it has higher gain then.

The TDAi was fed digitally with input senitivity set to 0db. The Amp Ultra was playing from DLNA also without gain mods.

 

[Aquaman]

The digital source into the TDAI was a WiiM Ultra (not Amp) btw. So I‘d say it was a fair comparison.

 

[EddNog]

It is worth mentioning that gain can be increased with the per-input Pre-Gain control, if needed. With this it is possible to make better use of available power - even with relatively low-volume sources.

Be careful with this; excessive use will risk digital clipping.

-Ed

 

[dominikz]

Be careful with this; excessive use will risk digital clipping.

-Ed

Of course, cranking pre-gain with volume close to 100% and loud sources is not a good idea.
But pre-gain can be a good solution in cases where a source is too low in level and therefore full power can't be reached.

 

[hoohoohoo]

That's how my dad feels, so I gave him one of these and he says it's the best thing I've ever given him (not counting his grandkids):

Anti-Mode X2 | DSPeaker

www.dspeaker.com

The X2D model so he can use his own DAC. He feeds it via USB from his WiiM Ultra. The X2D then feeds a Luxsin X9 DAC/preamp via coaxial S/PDIF that handles bass management and volume control for his SVS SB-3000 subwoofer and a pair of Topping B200 monoblocs that drive a pair of Magnepan LRS+. He has a fully treated, dedicated listening room. It sounds amazing. The Anti-Mode algorithm corrects both, frequency response and phase (unlike RoomFit, which only does frequency response, or DIRAC Live, which does frequency response, phase, and impulse).

He couldn't be bothered one bit with the faff that is WiiM RoomFit, or DIRAC Live. The Anti-Mode is as simple and easy as it gets, and he even enjoys the built-in tone control.

-Ed

@EddNog Off topic, but I see that you have a pair of Topping B200s for sale on Ebay. What have you replaced them with? What did you like about the B200s?

 

[EddNog]

@EddNog Off topic, but I see that you have a pair of Topping B200s for sale on Ebay. What have you replaced them with? What did you like about the B200s?

The B200s are still the best sounding separate/analog amps I've ever heard at any price. Full stop.

I bought a Marantz M1 which integrates ARC input w/full LFE downmixing, DIRAC Live room correction, and a pure digital power amplifier (straight PCM to PWM class-D amplification, so zero digital to analog conversion in my entire chain, and frequency response that is absolutely neutral regardless of load thanks to global feedback architecture) and it also handles bass management, crossing in my subwoofer fully transparently.

The B200s are the best of the past. The Marantz M1 is the future done right (the amp part, not the streamer part--HEOS is absolute shit).

-Ed

 

[Aquaman]

Back on topic.
I sometimes skip into the naim forum just for a laugh.
There I came across the new Naim Uniti Nova Power Edition. It sports a Purifi (which?) class-D amp with 150w into 8 and 250w into 4ohms. Not much for a Purifi based amp today.
It costs 9,999 EUR.
Comparing this to my setup, I‘m somewhat bewildered. My state of the art Apollon based on the 9040BA module delivers more than double the power and the Ultra for sure is the better streamer and has the better software and app. Not sure about the DAC in the Naim, they don‘t tell you. The price of my equipment is exactly 1/3 of Naim‘s. This is silly.

In the light of the above I would say, yes, there is quite a bit of headroom for WiiM to move up the ladder without any risk.

 

[taube Taube]

Not sure about the DAC in the Naim, they don‘t tell you.

But the Internet will tell you. Burr-Brown, model is unknown, but most likely pcm1795 or similar.

 

[harkpabst]

The TDAi was fed digitally with input senitivity set to 0db. The Amp Ultra was playing from DLNA also without gain mods.

The gain is still different.

Gain and power are totally different concepts. The 2170 has a per input digital gain setting (just positive values), too, just like e.g. the WiiM Amp Ultra.

 

[claudia.bailey]

To be more frank, (to follow them for almost 4 years), I think Wiim lacks the skills and experience regarding audio hardware and audio topics to tackle the high-end market. They're learning, which is normal.
(although on some subjects it remains really difficult to understand )


But also, nothing would prevent them from calling on resources, consultants, subcontractors, or partners better equipped in these areas.

But would it be relevant in relation to their image, their positioning, and a certain lag behind established players?
I don't know.

We mustn't forget that we can consider another angle... Linkplay, the "parent" company, a smart, subcontracting audio brand...

;-)

Although I think their software is better than a lot of established companies. As a Marantz user, if you have ever used Heos, that thing belongs in the bin. The same goes for Yamaha software, which is truly awful.