Jitter over digital outputs for different WiiMs

[Smartplug]

I don’t know if it’s just me but I never had any luck liking digital coax sound quality. Many here would rather use coax over toslink.

 

[Wiimer]

I don’t know if it’s just me but I never had any luck liking digital coax sound quality. Many here would rather use coax over toslink.

Friend, at least I am an Optical guy.
Of course, I just like the red light.

 

[onlyoneme]

@onlyoneme if not asking too much again, I always wondered how jitter is shown in a 32 multitone test. Can you also do with and without PLL too?

This test is useless for jitter purposes.

PLL off:



PLL on:

 

[pbr]

1000% the opposite for me. At least when I was totally in on high end systems and the scene. Granted that was 10+years ago but coax always surpassed toslink then. Technology might have closed or surpassed I suppose. But I will have to have it proven to me

 

[onlyoneme]

You made any comparison tests for coaxial and toslink in terms of the jitter 10 years ago?

 

[Smartplug]

Do you have the data back up your claim? We and the rest of audiophile only believe if there’s a credible evidence such as from precision audio. This is why I like reviewer like Erin and gene. They say things based on measurements to back up their claim.

 

[pbr]

Never, always in terms of making music

 

[slartibartfast]

Do you have the data back up your claim? We and the rest of audiophile only believe if there’s a credible evidence such as from precision audio. This is why I like reviewer like Erin and gene. They say things based on measurements to back up their claim.

Hang on, audiophiles hate measurements in general

 

[Mr Ee]

Thanks heaven I am not an "audiophile" but a simple enthusiast. And I love measurements!! Done by people knowing what they are publishing. In this forum my counting of these members reaches two only. A lot of charlatans around.

Only two? Or only one?

 

[onlyoneme]

Some changes made to the main post.

 

[steadyshot]

I am getting worse subjective performance on Audioquest carbon toslink 0.75m from Wiim pro plus compared to the qed performance digital Audio coax 1m with my dac from Wiim pro plus . Coax has bigger soundstage , much better instrument separation, faster and more clear sound . Why?

 

[onlyoneme]

Might be something around the dac, might be cables itself. I had none of them.
And talking about subjective impressions is a delicate thing.

 

[steadyshot]

Might be something around the dac, might be cables itself. I had none of them.
And talking about subjective impressions is a delicate thing.

Yes ok... But just seeing the jitter spikes on the coax vs toslink on the graphs you posted, if those alone were an indicator of real world performance, you would say that toslink has less spikes and it should therefore be better connection because it will transfer less jitter... Not mentioning the total galvanic isolation that toslink offers. So theory in my case does not fully agree with the real world perception. Placebo ? I dont know the carbon costs 140 euros and it is highly rated, while my qed coax can be found for 60 euros?So no placebo....The only thing is that jitter suppression is better on coax than optical in my dac, but if the source is less jittery on toslink than coax it still does not explain the notable difference although subjective and delicate and questionable...but to me it is not questionable. I have just regretted the money spent on a toslink cable...

What other measurements can we think of that can affect the analogue conversion?

 

[s3igell]

Yes ok... But just seeing the jitter spikes on the coax vs toslink on the graphs you posted, if those alone were an indicator of real world performance, you would say that toslink has less spikes and it should therefore be better connection because it will transfer less jitter... Not mentioning the total galvanic isolation that toslink offers. So theory in my case does not fully agree with the real world perception. Placebo ? I dont know the carbon costs 140 euros and it is highly rated, while my qed coax can be found for 60 euros?So no placebo....The only thing is that jitter suppression is better on coax than optical in my dac, but if the source is less jittery on toslink than coax it still does not explain the notable difference although subjective and delicate and questionable...but to me it is not questionable. I have just regretted the money spent on a toslink cable...

What other measurements can we think of that can affect the analogue conversion?

It sounds like you are asking for your entire setup to be Measured and Debugged (or is that Debunked?). Better have a discussion of Airfare with Onlyoneme...

 

[jed1]

Jitter or not, I enjoy music of my choice. Happy listening!

 

[Smartplug]

Jitter or not, I enjoy music of my choice. Happy listening!

Agree! It doesn’t matter how other people think as long you like what you hear is all that matters. Tube amp has high distortion of 10% but other translate that as pleasing sound. Audiophile are purist want maximum signal integrity bypassing anything that would colored the sound like tone control.

 

[Musician]

Yes ok... But just seeing the jitter spikes on the coax vs toslink on the graphs you posted, if those alone were an indicator of real world performance, you would say that toslink has less spikes and it should therefore be better connection because it will transfer less jitter... Not mentioning the total galvanic isolation that toslink offers. So theory in my case does not fully agree with the real world perception. Placebo ? I dont know the carbon costs 140 euros and it is highly rated, while my qed coax can be found for 60 euros?So no placebo....The only thing is that jitter suppression is better on coax than optical in my dac, but if the source is less jittery on toslink than coax it still does not explain the notable difference although subjective and delicate and questionable...but to me it is not questionable. I have just regretted the money spent on a toslink cable...

What other measurements can we think of that can affect the analogue conversion?

If theres a ground loop in your system there is a risk that the coaxial spdif will carry that disturbance further to the dac . If there is RFi disturbance going through the coaxial cable the same will happen. This might change the sound of the analog stage of the dac - making it slightly brighter than it should be. The risk is that one might prefere the ground loop or RFi contaminated signal , because it will sound brighter. But in reality its worse. Toslink dont have those issues. Toslink is the best sounding interface in consumer products.

This is the explanation ( the meaning of it ) of Rob Watts from chord having a long seminarum about jitter, power supplies and RFi disturbance.

 

[steadyshot]

If theres a ground loop in your system there is a risk that the coaxial spdif will carry that disturbance further to the dac . If there is RFi disturbance going through the coaxial cable the same will happen. This might change the sound of the analog stage of the dac - making it slightly brighter than it should be. The risk is that one might prefere the ground loop or RFi contaminated signal , because it will sound brighter. But in reality its worse. Toslink dont have those issues. Toslink is the best sounding interface in consumer products.

This is the explanation ( the meaning of it ) of Rob Watts from chord having a long seminarum about jitter, power supplies and RFi disturbance.

After a lot of back and forth I have settled with optical . In the end it may result in less “air” and less quick transients, but the sound profile is more warm and relaxed due to noise isolation.

 

[Musician]

After a lot of back and forth I have settled with optical . In the end it may result in less “air” and less quick transients, but the sound profile is more warm and relaxed due to noise isolation.

If Rob Watts is right about this ( he probably is ) then the audible changes should be what you describe.
This is also my experience when experimenting with different power supplies - less RFi ( both in SMPS or LPS) = a more relaxed and slightly darker sound.

 

[adias]

If Rob Watts is right about this ( he probably is ) then the audible changes should be what you describe.
This is also my experience when experimenting with different power supplies - less RFi ( both in SMPS or LPS) = a more relaxed and slightly darker sound.

Excellent talk.