Let's update power cable with something shielded

harkpabst said:
It's not that hard to see why a shielded power cable could be advantageous, is it?
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I remember a short test I made to show the effect of the emission from mains to the signal cable. In the test scenario it was very small but measurable. I'm pretty convinced that it would be no such interference at all if shielded power cord is used.
 
harkpabst said:
It's not that hard to see why a shielded power cable could be advantageous, is it?
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It’s not hard to hypothecate, but that doesn’t mean it will be.

The only legitimate ways to tell if it’s necessary are (a) measure the signal output of a device to see if that is being changed by amounts significant enough to alter the sound, and (b) controlled human testing to see if real people can spot the difference.

If no difference is found doing either or both of those, then it doesn’t matter what measurements you get from the power cable itself.
 
Noise from electrical sources (power cables, WiFi, engines, lights etc.) cannot change the sound. It may introduce audio noise on analog lines and distortion on digital lines but never a chance of the sound itself.
 
henninggodske said:
Noise from electrical sources (power cables, WiFi, engines, lights etc.) cannot change the sound. It may introduce audio noise on analog lines and distortion on digital lines but never a chance of the sound itself.
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That's a bold statement.

Given the very generic meaning of "noise" I don't see how adding noise would not change the "sound" (which is vaguely defined, at best).

Steve Woodhouse said:
The only legitimate ways to tell if it’s necessary are (a) measure the signal output of a device to see if that is being changed by amounts significant enough to alter the sound, and (b) controlled human testing to see if real people can spot the difference.
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So, what do you propose? Not to start this at all, like @onlyoneme did? ;) I wouldn't see any value in this.
 
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henninggodske said:
Noise from electrical sources (power cables, WiFi, engines, lights etc.) cannot change the sound. It may introduce audio noise on analog lines and distortion on digital lines but never a chance of the sound itself.
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Interesting position, but rather incorrect.
Anything transmitted by the analog cable in the form of the complex, electric wave, and possible to reproduce at the end by speakers, is the sound. Adding any additional content like noise or distortions is also altering the sound.
 
onlyoneme said:
Interesting position, but rather incorrect.
Anything transmitted by the analog cable in the form of the complex, electric wave, and possible to reproduce at the end by speakers, is the sound. Adding any additional content like noise or distortions is also altering the sound.
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If you mean that adding/removing a 50/60 Hz humming in the sound is a change of it, you are right. What I have read is however that some people think they get a more clear sound or a warmer sound or even a better sound stage when using these cables. And that is nonsense.
 
onlyoneme said:
Interesting position, but rather incorrect.
Anything transmitted by the analog cable in the form of the complex, electric wave, and possible to reproduce at the end by speakers, is the sound. Adding any additional content like noise or distortions is also altering the sound.
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Does any noise get through to the DC power supply output?
 
henninggodske said:
If you mean that adding/removing a 50/60 Hz humming in the sound is a change of it, you are right. What I have read is however that some people think they get a more clear sound or a warmer sound or even a better sound stage when using these cables. And that is nonsense.
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The mains supply has much more disturbance in it these days.
All the noise generated by switching power supplies is also included, that is why emc is a bigger topic now than 20 years ago.
The current drawing by modern devices is no longer only a sine wave, but only parts of it. This generaties disturbaces at higher frequenties than only 50 or 60hz.
For this the twisting and shielding can help to reduce the interference between the power and audio cables and equipement right behind your audio setup. Further away it has less effect.

Of course it depends on your specific setup if you can haar this back in the audio signal, and then mainly at lower volumes because it may decrease the signal to noise ratio a bit.

I would agree that this will not create a completely new soundstage or really different sound signature. A change of speakers can do that, and sometimes an amplifier. In this forum there is already doubt if an adc can do this... It is mainly an improvement that, if done at relatively low cost might improve the last percent of you system.

It always a balance between all component including your ears and brain.
Even if there is a difference, is it worth the money? Are you improving the worst component in your system?
And sometimes its enough if it looks good or make you feel good.
 
This is an interesting thread, onlyomeme has measurement gear to back up any eventual subjective sound impression;).

Following this with interest.
 
onlyoneme said:
Why not, right?
I found one sold on Amazon under the Tertullus brand (no, it's not Tellurium), it's cheap so suitable for the role ;)
The resistance check for mains first.
A stock one:
View attachment 12777

A shielded one:
View attachment 12778

Definitely better.

Now something much more important - a test of shielding efficiency with the NCV sensor, which can detect the presence of AC voltage.

A stock one:
View attachment 12779

4 bars, the led is blinking all the time along with the buzzing.

And a shielded one:
View attachment 12780

Simply nothing, complete silence. Wow!
I want it now :D But...

It does not fit when USB port is also used... :(
View attachment 12781

I will have to use an adapter for C7/C14, someone mentioned it already on the forum.

To be continued...
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Here is my solution which was made fun of.

Here’s the easiest way to upgrade power cable.

With the ethernet and USB so close to the power inlet, no big plug can fit if using those too also. So I found this, fits perfectly, just have to route your fat cable from the side. https://a.co/d/08tQG8y
forum.wiimhome.com forum.wiimhome.com
 
henninggodske said:
The jokes are there because technically this is a joke.
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If it's a joke, why do you think audio manufacturers has always advised not to run power cables close to your interconnect. All you naysayers must be just low fi people with no real audiophile experience.
 
Audiohome said:
I posted this alternative solution with an usb adapter to make the mains connector fit in the other cable topic:
View attachment 12812

You need to use wifi as I did not find an ethernet connector yet that is small enough.

Unfortunate that topic discussing these things are so often filled by posters that only make jokes out of it.
It would be nice to be able to discuss it on a technical level...
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If you used the adapter I linked, you will have no problem using ethernet or the usb.
 
After rethinking it one more time I decided to use the IEC adapter, not angled in my case, instead of the USB adapter.
The side where signal cables are situated among the new, shielded power cords, is almost completely silent in the NCV test with single beeps occasionally. Now time for listening tests while waiting for the good opportunity to perform measurements.
 
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onlyoneme said:
After rethinking it one more time I decided to use the IEC adapter, not angled in my case, instead of the USB adapter.
The side where signal cables are situated among the new, shielded power cords, is almost completely silent in the NCV test with single beeps occasionally. Time for listening tests while waiting for the good opportunity to perform measurements.
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This measurement result, for sure will remove one potentially disturbing thinking, so the listening will be more positively relaxed about it... 😎
 
dangermouse said:
Started off my hi-fi journey in 1962, so that would be 62 years lack of real audiophile experience in my case. ;)
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Yes. Have been reading about this audiophile power cord myth for more than 40 years.

Attached an example of the power connector for a $500 pre-amp and a $100 external power cable. If it did matter why then just these cheap wires in the amp?
 

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henninggodske said:
Yes. Have been reading about this audiophile power cord myth for more than 40 years.

Attached an example of the power connector for a $500 pre-amp and a $100 external power cable. If it did matter why then just these cheap wires in the amp?
Click to expand...

Excellent point, but I'm afraid that common sense doesn't enter into the equation in this sort of thread.
 
dangermouse said:
Excellent point, but I'm afraid that common sense doesn't enter into the equation in this sort of thread.
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In a flat I lived in many years ago I would hear a loud click through my speakers every time the fridge thermostat switched. I put a mains filter on my hi-fi and the problem was solved. I don't think a shielded power cable would have helped in that case 🤣
 
henninggodske said:
Yes. Have been reading about this audiophile power cord myth for more than 40 years.

Attached an example of the power connector for a $500 pre-amp and a $100 external power cable. If it did matter why then just these cheap wires in the amp?
Click to expand...
Don't you think bthe case provides some good shielding? :)
 
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