WiiM can call them Roon Ready because Roon certified them as such. As suggested previously, if you have an issue syncing WiiM devices using Roon/RAAT (I.e you aren’t trying to group WiiM devices in the WiiM app), you should submit a ticket to WiiM and perhaps Roon. I would have thought that sync was a core part of Roon certification.
Roon List of Roon-Exclusive Functions for WiiM Pro/Plus/App
How would RAAT know that the processing times in the software based DSP after decoding has variable delay? To be fair to WiiM they have made a very capable Swiss Army knife device. It's able to do a lot. It just isn't purpose made hardware, so you have to tune in the delay for each unit as you've configured and connected it.
As soon as Harmon (or someone) offers a dedicated RAAT endpoint with an integrated amp, I'll switch all my ceiling speakers over to that immediately and be done with WiiM. Their focus is on making a very capable and talented streamer. I just need a RAAT sink + amp. I don't care or use any of the other features or capabilities of WiiM and I'm sure I'm not the only Roon user in this situation.
I've done both... WiiM was completely unhelpful and blamed Roon. Roon said they only certify that it plays to one device and that multi-room isn't tested beyond you can group and something is played. The back and forth and lack of any ownership of the problem is what led me to finally figuring out that the WiiM units are software based and RAAT can't possibly know about delays after decoding. It took me MONTHS to solve this and I still think Roon should pull the Roon Ready certification.
There doesn’t seem much logic in pulling Roon certification from WiiM because they’re not doing something that Roon say isn’t covered by certification anyway. If that is the case I don’t see what RAAT offers, they might as well just use UPNP or some other open protocol.
slartibartfast
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Interesting. If I synchronise my WiiM Amp with a Squeezebox Radio they sound perfectly synchronised whether room correction is applied or not. I also haven't noticed any problems with lip sync when I use the optical input for TV.
Sorry, I meant Roon should tighten the certification to test for grouped devices to ensure they stay in sync within some specific time, like under 20ms (time most musicians can detect timing being off). Then WiiM would have to fix their RAAT implementation to account for their software processing delays.
Ok, thanks. I would have thought that RAAT certification would have covered things like accurate sync of grouped Roon Ready devices and was surprised at what they told you, and I’d agree that it would then be up to WiiM to regularly check that any firmware changes didn’t adversely impact that.
I got the impression the certification process was a checklist. No performance metrics were used for any test. Simply a yes/no check, but I'd love if they published exactly what ROON Ready means to help promote the product and inform customers.
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To confirm my point that Roon Ready certification isn't transparent and more than a checklist? Absolutely.
I agree. I've got a house full of Sonos Devices: Amps, Connect: Amps, Play 5s and a Port. When Sonos blew up their app, I went looking for an anlternative, which led me to ROON which then to WiiM. Sonos device are NOT Roon Certified but carry the "Tested" label. They are not RAAT endpoints but operate Sonos Net. Yet, all my Sonos Devices controlled via ROON play in perfect sync without having to monkey around with the delay settings.
I bought a WiiM Ultra for the HDMI Arc port on the back. It helped me get rid of a Sonos Beam which I used to wirelessly send TV Audio over to a Port then into my Living Room AV. The Ultra to DAC to B&O Amps sounds amazing and the only drawback was that the WiiM Ultra coudn't group with the other Sonos devices. To solve the problem I just plugged the Sonos Port into the Optical In of the Ultra and when I wanted to group, I'd just change the wiim input and control all off ROON. It worked so well (Confidence in RAAT) that I bought 2 more WiiM devices so that everything on the ground floor could operate together without needing the Port. My Office, Living Room and Outdoor Patio are in a straight line to each other and I often play all three zones together. This WiiM set up is a DISASTER. Each Piece sound fantastic indidually, but together its a mess. I regret it, and now I'm going to try my luck with Bluesound Nodes on the ground floor and see if they'll play nice together.
slartibartfast
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You should investigate Lyrion Music Server. No issues with synchronisation between WiiM devices incorporating Squeezelite and native Squeezeboxes. I have no experience using it with Sonos devices but I think others do via the UPnP/DLNA plugin.
Have you raised a ticket to WiiM about this “mess”?
The only issue, I'm fairly vested into Roon. I just built a dedicated Roon ROCK server with an i7 and 32GB RAM in Akasa Case and purchased back in November a lifetime license.... I really want to make it work.
I am sure going to and I'll keep this thread posted and I'm going to the do the same with Roon support.
From Roon's Own Website this is part of the brand and feature promise of Roon Ready
Further to my post above, I got a Node Nano in the house and one thing I can say for sure - the WiiMs, both Ultra and Pro, used a pure streamer, sound head and shoulders better than the Nano used as a streamer. I've tried the Nano with Optical, Coax and USB out to my DAC and it's veiled, muted, lacking punch and detail. The Pro using Optical out to my DAC and into AMP carries about 30% more volume at the same level as Nano and there's far more weight and punch in the bass together with better instrument separation. The Node is going back.
Just Sent this to both Roon and WiiM Support:
As a Roon and Sonos user, I just picked up 2 WiiM pieces, an Ultra and a Pro, because they are said to be Roon Ready. Both Streamers are recognized in ROON as "Roon Ready" under audio settings but I cannot get them in sync no matter what I do. I've grouped, ungrouped, regrouped and rebooted- all to no avail.
Using the WiiM App I've tried auto sync and manual sync; auto does nothing. Under the default settings the WiiM Pro was approx. 4 to 5 seconds behind the Ultra, no matter which order I grouped them. So, I increased the Ultra latency +1000ms (max setting) and decreased the WiiM Pro latency -1000ms (max setting) and now they are approx.2 seconds apart. This is unlistenable and just plain unacceptable.
How can both Roon and WiiM call these devices "Roon Ready" when RAAT doesn't take care of syncing the endpoints as promised in a Roon Ready Device"? I bought these devices because of the Roon Ready Certification and the brand and function promise that accompanies it.
From Roon's own Website Concerning "Roon Ready"
Device certification
Synchronized multi-room
Clearly that's not the case with these WiiM Devices, so I bought a Bluesound Node Nano, also certified as Roon Ready just to see if I could get it to sync with at least one of the WiiM devices. The answer is no, not a chance
So I must ask for support and insist on a remedy because clearly I am not receiving the benefit of the features promised. Can this be fixed with firmware? Can this be escalated? Either way, please advise when a fix can be expected.
Clearly the Roon and WiiM collaboration for rigorous testing to certify that these devices meet an exhaustive set of performance requirements, as promised, was not done here because synchronized multiroom playback is not possible. Again, please advise the remedy.
As a Roon and Sonos user, I just picked up 2 WiiM pieces, an Ultra and a Pro, because they are said to be Roon Ready. Both Streamers are recognized in ROON as "Roon Ready" under audio settings but I cannot get them in sync no matter what I do. I've grouped, ungrouped, regrouped and rebooted- all to no avail.
Using the WiiM App I've tried auto sync and manual sync; auto does nothing. Under the default settings the WiiM Pro was approx. 4 to 5 seconds behind the Ultra, no matter which order I grouped them. So, I increased the Ultra latency +1000ms (max setting) and decreased the WiiM Pro latency -1000ms (max setting) and now they are approx.2 seconds apart. This is unlistenable and just plain unacceptable.
How can both Roon and WiiM call these devices "Roon Ready" when RAAT doesn't take care of syncing the endpoints as promised in a Roon Ready Device"? I bought these devices because of the Roon Ready Certification and the brand and function promise that accompanies it.
From Roon's own Website Concerning "Roon Ready"
Device certification
Synchronized multi-room
Clearly that's not the case with these WiiM Devices, so I bought a Bluesound Node Nano, also certified as Roon Ready just to see if I could get it to sync with at least one of the WiiM devices. The answer is no, not a chance
So I must ask for support and insist on a remedy because clearly I am not receiving the benefit of the features promised. Can this be fixed with firmware? Can this be escalated? Either way, please advise when a fix can be expected.
Clearly the Roon and WiiM collaboration for rigorous testing to certify that these devices meet an exhaustive set of performance requirements, as promised, was not done here because synchronized multiroom playback is not possible. Again, please advise the remedy.
timmo
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Hi - I don’t mean to over-simplify your issue, but will share my experience as a lifetime Roon user with a lesson I learned early on with the WiiM integration with Roon - and please ignore me if I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about and completely missing the point.
I’ve had the WiiMs since they first came out (mini, Pro, Pro-Plus) and prior to Roon Ready certification (Pro and Pro-Plus). Always always always group the WiiMs in the Roon app - never ever group the WiiMs together in the WiiM app when playing Roon:My Roon speaker group:
My WiiM app (notice how each WiiM device stays on its own):
I have never had sync issues since doing this, so I just wanted to share this with you … but again, if I’m being stupid here I will delete my post!
Hey @timmo
There is absolutely nothing stupid about your post, you are relating your genuine positive experience. The only thing I use the WiiM app for is setting up / initiating the devices. Once the device is on my network I do everything else, grouping, etc. In Roon. When they wouldn't cooperate with each other in Roon, I tried changing their respective latencies in the WiiM App. I'm glad your devices work, mine so far don't.
There is absolutely nothing stupid about your post, you are relating your genuine positive experience. The only thing I use the WiiM app for is setting up / initiating the devices. Once the device is on my network I do everything else, grouping, etc. In Roon. When they wouldn't cooperate with each other in Roon, I tried changing their respective latencies in the WiiM App. I'm glad your devices work, mine so far don't.
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timmo
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Okay - I’ll leave my post as-is in case it helps anyone else (because I was super-frustrated at the beginning of this journey as well back in the day).
The only other thing I’ll mention/suggest (and I’m sure you’ve done this) is to factory reset your WiiMs and go through the setup process again for those devices including ‘Room Correction’, ‘Sync Audio’, etc. while playing other sources of music outside of Roon. Then play music outside of Roon grouping those devices in WiiM app together to confirm all is in sync. Once that works and all is good try again in Roon with grouping the WiiMs (while un-grouped in WiiM app) and see if that improves it. I’ve never had to re-adjust any settings (in either Roon or WiiM) since initially setting up these devices in order to sync properly with Roon music. Good luck!
Just curious, are your WiiMs hardwired to the network or WiFi?Hi - I don’t mean to over-simplify your issue, but will share my experience as a lifetime Roon user with a lesson I learned early on with the WiiM integration with Roon - and please ignore me if I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about and completely missing the point.
My Roon speaker group:
View attachment 20507
My WiiM app (notice how each WiiM device stays on its own):
View attachment 20508
I have never had sync issues since doing this, so I just wanted to share this with you … but again, if I’m being stupid here I will delete my post!
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