Listening impressions with the WiiM Ultra compared to the WiiM pro+ and compared to other streamers

[d6jg]

a person without professional or specialized knowledge in a particular subject.

It’s supposed to be a subjective review so it makes no difference whether you are a layman or not.

 

[Smartplug]

That sounds like rather perverse marketing to me - come buy my two star product!! Nobody would…

You get what you pay for. Do you expect 5 star on sub 100? If mini sound same as ultra, then there’s no point shelling out extra cash.

 

[d6jg]

That sounds like rather perverse marketing to me - come buy my two star product!! Nobody would…

Neither has it any merit. The Mini when used with its onboard DAC might be considered 2 star but when the output is optical …..

 

[Smartplug]

It’s supposed to be a subjective review so it makes no difference whether you are a layman or not.

My point was if the other product was measured really good even untrained ear could hear the difference. In audio world we use all these wording not being use in daily words.

 

[d6jg]

My point was if the other product was measured really good even untrained ear could hear the difference. In audio world we use all these wording not being use in daily words.

I appreciate English is not your native language but whether someone has any audiophile knowledge or not is totally irrelevant to subjective review. An individual either perceives one thing as better than another or not. He/she needs no specialist knowledge to reach that view.

 

[Smartplug]

When you watch Randy and the rest of them all you doing was to get their opinion whether vague or crazy comment. It just gives you an option on what they think of the product. You buy it listen it to yourself and if you like it keep it if not return it.

 

[sfjain]

How about the optical digital out of the Pro Plus VS usb digital out of the Ultra?

Thx

 

[pieterv1]

I think wiim should put how many star on each its devices based on measurements so the buyer knows what their getting on their purchase. Let say, their top end ultra get 5 and mini get 2. That’s just an example.

whut makes 0 sense... Completely different products for different situations and most importantly for very different prices.

 

[Smartplug]

whut makes 0 sense... Completely different products for different situations and most importantly for very different prices.

What make no sense you don’t know what you’re talking about. All these products are streamers with built in dac inside. You connect mini to amp and you do the same on ultra. You listen to both of them and you think both would sound same? We’re talking about sq not feature sets. This is what I’m talking about star quality not feature set but sq.

 

[Mr Ee]

You get what you pay for. Do you expect 5 star on sub 100? If mini sound same as ultra, then there’s no point shelling out extra cash.

Funny you should say that...
I ran a mini, pro and ultra all optical out to the same dac / hp amp for a few hours of comparison.
And I'm certain I wouldn't be able to tell them apart if I wasn't looking.
However, each unit has differentiators for why you might buy one over any other.

(I realise you were probably referring to the analog out. Yes, imo the mini and pro are pretty woeful in that regard.)

 

[Smartplug]

Funny you should say that...
I ran a mini, pro and ultra all optical out to the same dac / hp amp for a few hours of comparison.
And I'm certain I wouldn't be able to tell them apart if I wasn't looking.
However, each unit has differentiators for why you might buy one over any other.

(I realise you were probably referring to the analog out. Yes, imo the mini and pro are pretty woeful in that regard.)

When you do that, all those devices are just digital transport and the external dac does the decoding and should not hear difference. What I’m stating was mini connect its analog out straight to amp so does the ultra. This should you hear the dac built in each unit. The better spec should be audible even you don’t have golden ear. The extra money buys you connections, better analog stage and higher quality dac chipset.

 

[bherren]

If they sound same, that means their design was copied and could be patent lawsuit infringement.

I don't want to be rude but that doesn't make much sense...

D->A conversion is a well understood process... It's proven (Nyquist theorem from memory) that sampling at frequency F can pretty much represent the signal exactly at any frequency up to F/2 (minus quantisation from the limited bit depth), but there is absolutely no reason 2 different DACs couldn't generate exactly the same analog output signal from the same digital one within that frequency domain.

Now I understand that impulse response is tricky and that's where the DAC filters come in.

So off hand if you have two 'good' DACs (let's say flat Freq response within the audible domain, noise floor & distortion around -110dB or below), what can possibly make them 'sound different' ? Appart from that filter (and the choices here seem to be the same for all manufacturers, but maybe the DACs you tested have a different default?) or some load related aberration (distortion) in the output analog circuit (but that would have been reflected in the above mentioned noise floor & distortion measurement) ...

I'm really trying to understand here, not lecturing... IE trying to reconcile what I understand of the electronics & math involved (granted quite possibly incomplete) with your experience...

If they sound different to you then there must be *something* that can be measured that differs and I wonder what it can be. There is no magic, it's all pretty grounded in math and physics...

 

[DRC]

I don't want to be rude but that doesn't make much sense...

This is the subjective thread so people are allowed to believe any nonsense. If someone says that the earth is flat then you are not allowed to disagree!

 

[slartibartfast]

When you do that, all those devices are just digital transport and the external dac does the decoding and should not hear difference. What I’m stating was mini connect its analog out straight to amp so does the ultra. This should you hear the dac built in each unit. The better spec should be audible even you don’t have golden ear. The extra money buys you connections, better analog stage and higher quality dac chipset.

In that case why bother with star ratings when they are already classified by the price?

 

[slartibartfast]

This is the subjective thread so people are allowed to believe any nonsense. If someone says that the earth is flat then you are not allowed to disagree!

Can they also say that if DACs sound the same they could be infringing patents?

 

[alpha_zulu]

A very interesting video on this topic (objectivity vs. subjectivity / measurements vs. listening impressions):

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

A very interesting video on this topic (objectivity vs. subjectivity / measurements vs. listening impressions):

It’s the usual fluff from people with a vested interest.

Bottom line, if they don’t have the equipment to measure, unless they push this point of view, they’re out of a job.

 

[Smartplug]

In that case why bother with star ratings when they are already classified by the price?

Not all buyers think same. Mini would be 5 star if comparing same class from competition. The indicator would help them see and decide how much better if they pay more.

 

[Smartplug]

A very interesting video on this topic (objectivity vs. subjectivity / measurements vs. listening impressions):

Wow really cable is musical? Audioholic which based on measurements from audio precision would disagree.

 

[onlyoneme]

While I disagree with some aspects of their work, they at least do not make few basic measurements to call devices "transparent" and they try to find out more. And they have a lot of measurement equipment which helps a lot.