Opinions on RoomFit correction?

[Aziraphale]

In my opinion way to much correction in a vry small bandwith 40, 44, 46, 48Hz… with very high Q Factors. You might get „pumping“ or any other unwanted artifacts…
Have you chosen 1/12 octave smoothing?

Well, anyway, ifit sounds good, then it‘s good!

1/12 octave smoothing, non-boost, 20-400Hz, max gain: 0.5dB, min gain: -12dB, max Q: 10

I also used multiple measurements and separate left/right tuning. I was still considering tuning for 20-200Hz, if that could still make it a little bit better.

 

[slartibartfast]

1/12 octave smoothing, non-boost, 20-400Hz, max gain: 0.5dB, min gain: -12dB, max Q: 10

I also used multiple measurements and separate left/right tuning. I was still considering tuning for 20-200Hz, if that could still make it a little bit better.

There is no need to choose a max gain of 0.5dB if no-boost mode is used. Have you tried the Moving Microphone Method with pink noise instead of the frequency sweep?

 

[Aziraphale]

There is no need to choose a max gain of 0.5dB if no-boost mode is used. Have you tried the Moving Microphone Method with pink noise instead of the frequency sweep?

No, not yet. Will do that tomorrow! What do you think of my latest graphs?

 

[slartibartfast]

No, not yet. Will do that tomorrow! What do you think of my latest graphs?

I am not sure where the dip at 80-90Hz comes from on both channels. Apart from that they look fine.

 

[dominikz]

After a bit more fiddling, I've reached this point. It sounds very good, but what do you think?

I should start by saying that if it sounds good to you then it is good!

To me it looks good, yes, but honestly quite similar to the last one. I imagine they should both sound good. If you like you could also try increasing sub level by about 5dB to give RoomFit more headroom to work with and see if that gives you any further improvement.

As @slartibartfast suggested, there's really no need to limit Max Gain to 0.5dB when Non-Boost Mode is enabled - this won‘t improve the sound, but could result in inefficient filter allocation.
With Non-Boost Mode enabled I'd set Max Gain to +12dB to allow RoomFit more freedom when optimizing filter values.

In my opinion way to much correction in a vry small bandwith 40, 44, 46, 48Hz… with very high Q Factors. You might get „pumping“ or any other unwanted artifacts…

High Q values won't be a problem when Non-Boost Mode is enabled. It could be a problem if boosting was allowed, however, since sharp boosts can cause audible ringing and clipping.

But you are right that the filter selection made by RoomFit looks strange here - seems like a rather inefficient allocation of available filters by RoomFit.
Though again, this shouldn't cause audible issues, given that no new resonances are introduced.

 

[Aziraphale]

Ok, final try! It's still quite similar and I cannot seem to get rid of that weird dip aour 100Hz, but I really don't know how I could still improve. I guess the glass behind the speakers is not ideal, but if that causes the dip?

 

[MCG555]

I had/have also some cancellations at around 100Hz. In my case it‘s partly the phase and partly the loudspeaker’s distance from the wall. (For phase I only have 2 positions - 0 and 180•. The other phase position does not sound correct…) And the distance from the wall effects also room modes and soundstage…There are always compromises. So I guess for the moment I have optimized as best as possible…

 

[harkpabst]

Ok, final try! It's still quite similar and I cannot seem to get rid of that weird dip aour 100Hz, but I really don't know how I could still improve. I guess the glass behind the speakers is not ideal, but if that causes the dip?


View attachment 32857

What did you change to get there?

The dip below 100 Hz looks more severe than ever to me.

 

[Aziraphale]

What did you change to get there?

The dip below 100 Hz looks more severe than ever to me.

A bit more gain on the sub and a bit more toe-in on the speakers. I really don't know how to get rid of that dip.

 

[harkpabst]

A bit more gain on the sub and a bit more toe-in on the speakers. I really don't know how to get rid of that dip.

Could you perform a RoomFit run from a listening position further into the room, closer to the speakers?

Even if you cannot change your MLP at all, this should give you some insight if the dip is really unavoidable at your current MLP.

 

[Aziraphale]

Could you perform a RoomFit run from a listening position further into the room, closer to the speakers?

Even if you cannot change your MLP at all, this should give you some insight if the dip is really unavoidable at your current MLP.

I'll definitely try that! But what is the actual, audible, effect of this dip? From a measuring point of view it is problematic, but how far do I need to keep going to keep peceptible differences in sound quality?

 

[MCG555]

I'll definitely try that! But what is the actual, audible, effect of this dip? From a measuring point of view it is problematic, but how far do I need to keep going to keep peceptible differences in sound quality?

Exactly!
I have a test recording (you‘ll find it on Spotify) where the different frequencies are played individually so you get a feel for how it sounds „there“.
I then switch back and forth from original to roomfit sound and try to anticipate if I think something is left there. In my case I left it. However, it seems your dip is a bit bigger (10db)…

 

[harkpabst]

I'll definitely try that! But what is the actual, audible, effect of this dip? From a measuring point of view it is problematic, but how far do I need to keep going to keep peceptible differences in sound quality?

If it already sounds good to you, you can stop right here. The results are pretty good already. Note that the vertical resolution in your screenshots is just 40 dB, so the measurements are very granular and putting more visual emphasis on dips and peaks than many other results posted here.

Furthermore, research has shown that narrow-banded dips are hardly an issue for human perception, quite different from peaks. If you are specifically sensitive to this exact shape and depth of a dip, only you can tell.

Fighting the persisting winter weather with a summery outlook and to sum it all up, your setup should be perfectly fine to let the sun shine in your heart with the right kind of music while it's cold outside.

 

[dominikz]

Ok, final try! It's still quite similar and I cannot seem to get rid of that weird dip aour 100Hz, but I really don't know how I could still improve. I guess the glass behind the speakers is not ideal, but if that causes the dip?


View attachment 32857

@harkpabst Actually the same 100Hz dip existed in previous attempts as well, and also only in the evaluation response (cyan) - the same as here. See here and here to compare with this latest one here.

@Aziraphale IMHO this latest RoomFit looks better than all of the previous ones, mainly because the response below 50Hz is improved, and the dip at 55Hz is a bit shallower.
The 100Hz dip is some kind of interference between the two channels that is more difficult to troubleshoot. It is relatively narrow, and in any case should only apply to center-panned content, so it may not be as audibly problematic as it looks.

If you're happy with the sound then no need to continue investigating, IMHO.
If you want to continue, however, then I suspect you might need to experiment with placement some more.

 

[Aziraphale]

@harkpabst Actually the same 100Hz dip existed in previous attempts as well, and also only in the evaluation response (cyan) - the same as here. See here and here to compare with this latest one here.

@Aziraphale IMHO this latest RoomFit looks better than all of the previous ones, mainly because the response below 50Hz is improved, and the dip at 55Hz is a bit shallower.
The 100Hz dip is some kind of interference between the two channels that is more difficult to troubleshoot. It is relatively narrow, and in any case should only apply to center-panned content, so it may not be as audibly problematic as it looks.

If you're happy with the sound then no need to continue investigating, IMHO.
If you want to continue, however, then I suspect you might need to experiment with placement some more.

Well, it is quite fun to play with, to be honest... I have now moved the sub back to the other side of the room, roughly where my subcrawl wanted it. Let's see what that does.

 

[GeeTee]

i tried it once .. didnt like the sound and went back to my EQ settings

 

[slartibartfast]

i tried it once .. didnt like the sound and went back to my EQ settings

If you don't use a USB microphone all bets are off.

 

[GeeTee]

If you don't use a USB microphone all bets are off.

I thought whole idea was to use the 'quality' ios iphone 15 pro max mic. that the wiim app. is loaded on. No instruction to add a usb mic.

 

[slartibartfast]

I thought whole idea was to use the 'quality' ios iphone 15 pro max mic. that the wiim app. is loaded on. No instruction to add a usb mic.

I think iPhone mics work better with Roomfit than Android mics but I don't know how they compare to a USB mic at frequencies below 50Hz. A calibrated USB mic should be more trustworthy.

 

[Aziraphale]

I keep on trying.... Only downside is my wife and son playing a game in the next room and not being perfectly quiet.... The 100Hz dip looks less, but I'm not so sure about the rest. I've also added a photo of my setup from my listening position.