Qobuz & Wiim Pro and Mini

[Brantome]

Hi, I got a reply from Qobuz re Chromecast and gapless:

”Google Cast & Chromecast are not gapless devices. Even if you use the Qobuz app. The only way to get gapless with Chromecast is with Roon. This software creates and manages a single audio flux. So there is no need to switch from one track to another, no lag, etc... And this works even if the device is not gapless.”

Sounds as if BubbleUPNP does the same as Roon in terms of providing “a single audio flux” (guess by flux they mean stream)

 

[Mr Ee]

Hi, I got a reply from Qobuz re Chromecast and gapless:

”Google Cast & Chromecast are not gapless devices. Even if you use the Qobuz app. The only way to get gapless with Chromecast is with Roon. This software creates and manages a single audio flux. So there is no need to switch from one track to another, no lag, etc... And this works even if the device is not gapless.”

Sounds as if BubbleUPNP does the same as Roon in terms of providing “a single audio flux” (guess by flux they mean stream)

Bubble would be using the wiim as a upnp renderer, not chromecast.
Gapless to upnp depends on the renderer.
e.g. the upnp renderer in my amp does not support gapless, whereas the wiim does.
That's one of the reasons I bought a mini to start with, to get gapless casting.

 

[Maurizio]

I forgot to mention that by using BubbleUPnP to listen to music from Qobuz, you can get the most out of the WiiM Mini as well.
In fact, the App sees the Mini and the Pro as 2 separate renderers and you can choose which one to use.
The Mini is cut off from the Chromecast. This could be a solution.

 

[Maurizio]

I wrote to Qobuz about Qobuz Connect and Volume Normalization function.
This was their reply :
"
Dear Customer,

We thank you for the message.

We are very pleased that our service corresponds to your expectations.

In fact, the two features mentioned, namely Qobuz Connect and volume normalization, are being developed by our technical teams.

Hopefully these features will be available later this year.

We remain at your disposal for further assistance.

Best regards,

Rosaria

Qobuz"

 

[Maurizio]

I wrote to Qobuz about Qobuz Connect and Volume Normalization function.
This was their reply :
"
Dear Customer,

We thank you for the message.

We are very pleased that our service corresponds to your expectations.

In fact, the two features mentioned, namely Qobuz Connect and volume normalization, are being developed by our technical teams.

Hopefully these features will be available later this year.

We remain at your disposal for further assistance.

Best regards,

Rosaria

Qobuz"

 

[Witterings]

Hi @Brantome
Thx for your reply
About sound differences between AMU and Qobuz, i think they are very subtle.
More than anything they concern the soundstage, that of Qobuz is a little better defined. Qobuz also has a little more dynamics and certain frequencies, like the cymbals, stand out more.
However, they are very subtle differences

I tried both fairly extensively the other night, to start off with I thought one sounded better with one song and then the ther way round.

I realised sometimes they weren't playing the exact same tracks so I only played ones I'd imported from my Amazon playlists to Qobuz - including my demo music playlist - so they were the exact same recordings and I honestly couldn't tell a difference.
IF there was then I'd say Qobuz may have had the edge (very slightly tighetr) but if it did, it was so marginal.

I think my summary is I'd move to Qobuz (prefer their App for sorting tracks / artists) if they had a similar way of casting 24/192kHz to the WiiM and it was gapless, until they do the functionality of using the Amazon App as opposed to using the WiiM App far outweighs if there's an infinitesimal difference in sound.

 

[Balthazar B]

I think my summary is I'd move to Qobuz (prefer their App for sorting tracks / artists) if they had a similar way of casting 24/192kHz to the WiiM and it was gapless, until they do the functionality of using the Amazon App as opposed to using the WiiM App far outweighs if there's an infinitesimal difference in sound.

Just keep an eye out for availability of the heavily-rumored-here Qobuz Connect. With any luck, WiiM will be the first to implement it, and you'll be able to migrate to an application/service that actually a pleasure to use (comparatively-speaking, at least).

 

[R.remeijer]

Hi @Mr Ee
I'll tell you right away that your advice was GREAT!!
I solved all my problems on the fly.
I tried the free version of BubbleUPnP, which however has a streaming limit, and when I saw that it was the ideal App for me, I bought the license. It costs only 4€.
So what does BUPnP do? All :
1) The WPro was recognized immediately
2) Qobuz already exists within BUPnP
3) Now I can have music at 24/192 and gapeless
4) Not only that, but I also have the metadata; the articles; Qobuz choices and much more, practically like the native Qobuz App.
BUPnP also has countless settings and you can customize it to your liking, from the graphic aspect to the functionalities. I had to get carried away and explore the various menus, but, in the end, it's simple.
Another IMPORTANT thing, for me that I have a big library, there are many options to sort the albums. Finding a specific album takes seconds.
This is one of WHA's BIGGEST LEAKS. Albums are sorted by title only. Almost IMPOSSIBLE to find a specific album.
I also wrote to the @WiiM Support asking them to add at least 2 options to reorder the albums :
1) Artist Name
2) Last Added
as all Native Apps have, and not only Native Apps.
We'll see what happens. if they will listen to me

Apple users

Hi @Mr Ee
I'll tell you right away that your advice was GREAT!!
I solved all my problems on the fly.
I tried the free version of BubbleUPnP, which however has a streaming limit, and when I saw that it was the ideal App for me, I bought the license. It costs only 4€.
So what does BUPnP do? All :
1) The WPro was recognized immediately
2) Qobuz already exists within BUPnP
3) Now I can have music at 24/192 and gapeless
4) Not only that, but I also have the metadata; the articles; Qobuz choices and much more, practically like the native Qobuz App.
BUPnP also has countless settings and you can customize it to your liking, from the graphic aspect to the functionalities. I had to get carried away and explore the various menus, but, in the end, it's simple.
Another IMPORTANT thing, for me that I have a big library, there are many options to sort the albums. Finding a specific album takes seconds.
This is one of WHA's BIGGEST LEAKS. Albums are sorted by title only. Almost IMPOSSIBLE to find a specific album.
I also wrote to the @WiiM Support asking them to add at least 2 options to reorder the albums :
1) Artist Name
2) Last Added
as all Native Apps have, and not only Native Apps.
We'll see what happens. if they will listen to me

Apple users can use the app Mconnect (HD) for a similar experience.

 

[R.remeijer]

It is a great pity that we have to use other apps such as Mconnect or BubbleUpPnP to organize our library in a clear way.

 

[d6jg]

Question. I use WiiM with LMS and the UPnP/DLNA Bridge controlled by Material. That gives me everything the WiiM app provides plus more except Amazon and Apple.
What do you miss with BubbleUPnP or mConnect?

 

[WiiM Support]

Hi @Mr Ee
I'll tell you right away that your advice was GREAT!!
I solved all my problems on the fly.
I tried the free version of BubbleUPnP, which however has a streaming limit, and when I saw that it was the ideal App for me, I bought the license. It costs only 4€.
So what does BUPnP do? All :
1) The WPro was recognized immediately
2) Qobuz already exists within BUPnP
3) Now I can have music at 24/192 and gapeless
4) Not only that, but I also have the metadata; the articles; Qobuz choices and much more, practically like the native Qobuz App.
BUPnP also has countless settings and you can customize it to your liking, from the graphic aspect to the functionalities. I had to get carried away and explore the various menus, but, in the end, it's simple.
Another IMPORTANT thing, for me that I have a big library, there are many options to sort the albums. Finding a specific album takes seconds.
This is one of WHA's BIGGEST LEAKS. Albums are sorted by title only. Almost IMPOSSIBLE to find a specific album.
I also wrote to the @WiiM Support asking them to add at least 2 options to reorder the albums :
1) Artist Name
2) Last Added
as all Native Apps have, and not only Native Apps.
We'll see what happens. if they will listen to me

Hi Maurizio,

Thank you for your suggestions. These items are work-in-progress, so we expect to release these improvements in a month. Please stay tuned!

 

[bradavon]

I'd question whether Qobuz is really able to deliver 24/96 over Chromecast when only the Chromecast Audio officially supports that.

I guess unofficially does though.

 

[bradavon]

Qobuz does have a good reputation, and in their recent webcast, they said they'd be working closely with WiiM on Qobuz Connect, so much so that WiiM might be the first device to support it...

I went with Amazon Music because of the Casting limitations with Qobuz.

I'd consider it off you can cast 24/192 from the app.

I'm not interested using cables and the Wiim app has the same problem my Yamaha MusicCast app does. There's only so much they can do with the basic API given to them for the user interface by Amazon, Qobuz etc...

The UI you see in the app isn't designed by Wiim. They're using the API these companies provide. The Amazon Music UI in Wiim is almost identical to the Amazon Music UI in my Yamaha's MusicCast app.

I don't really know why Amazon Music has a poorer reputation. No MQA nonsense. 192/24 easily castable.

Think it has more High Resolution then Qobuz and Tidal.

I don't count Apple Music as you can't even stream High Resolution wirelessly on Apple devices.

 

[Brantome]

It’s not just the obsolescent Chromecast audio that officially supports that but according to Qobuz ”devices compatible with this service” even some up to 24/192 cf. https://help.qobuz.com/en/articles/10206-how-do-i-experience-hi-res-on-android

To me this is similar to the argument put forward that the Toslink spec doesn’t support 24/192 when in real life with hardware more recent than the original spec it patently does

 

[bradavon]

It’s not just the obsolescent Chromecast audio that officially supports that but according to Qobuz ”devices compatible with this service” even some up to 24/192 cf. https://help.qobuz.com/en/articles/10206-how-do-i-experience-hi-res-on-android

To me this is similar to the argument put forward that the Toslink spec doesn’t support 24/192 when in real life with hardware more recent than the original spec it patently does

I read that but it reads intentionally vague to me.

in 24-bit at 96 kHz in most cases and up to 24-bit at 192 kHz on some device

Which cases? Which devices? Do they only mean Google Chromecasts or devices with Chromecast built-in too? Those tend to be more limited.

State which Google Chromecast, which generation.

There are three Chromecast generations, one Chromecast Audio, a Chromecast Ultra and two Chromecast with Google TV.

Are Qobuz saying you get 24/96 with all of them? In which case what's with the vague statement?

Also remember Chromecast was developed for Spotify, Netflix those type of services. I think it's a great platform but it's obvious it's not made for audiophiles.

That said, if the Qobuz app is reporting 24/96 over Chromecast then I guess it is.

 

[Maurizio]

I read that but it reads intentionally vague to me.

in 24-bit at 96 kHz in most cases and up to 24-bit at 192 kHz on some device

Which cases? Which devices? Do they only mean Google Chromecasts or devices with Chromecast built-in too? Those tend to be more limited.

State which Google Chromecast, which generation.

There are three Chromecast generations, one Chromecast Audio, a Chromecast Ultra and two Chromecast with Google TV.

Are Qobuz saying you get 24/96 with all of them? In which case what's with the vague statement?

Also remember Chromecast was developed for Spotify, Netflix those type of services. I think it's a great platform but it's obvious it's not made for audiophiles.

That said, if the Qobuz app is reporting 24/96 over Chromecast then I guess it is.

Hi @bradavon
I have Qobuz and this is my experience :
Qobuz native App via Chromecast > 24/96 No Gapeless
BubbleUPnP> 24/192 Gapeless
Mconnect> 24/192 Gapeless
WHA>24/192 should be Gapeless. Don't know exactly because i don't use WHA.
All of the above confirmed by my DAC display.

 

[Brantome]

I read that but it reads intentionally vague to me.

in 24-bit at 96 kHz in most cases and up to 24-bit at 192 kHz on some device

Which cases? Which devices? Do they only mean Google Chromecasts or devices with Chromecast built-in too? Those tend to be more limited.

My reading of that was not just ChromeCast devices but non-Google devices with “Chromecast built in” such as those mentioned in this link https://stereo-magazine.com/review/chromecast-audio-review

Also remember Chromecast was developed for Spotify, Netflix those type of services. I think it's a great platform but it's obvious it's not made for audiophiles.

As I understand it, Spotify Connect was developed around 2013 as was ChromeCast so Spotify didn’t need ChromeCast

 

[Witterings]

I read that but it reads intentionally vague to me.

in 24-bit at 96 kHz in most cases and up to 24-bit at 192 kHz on some device

Which cases? Which devices? Do they only mean Google Chromecasts or devices with Chromecast built-in too? Those tend to be more limited.

State which Google Chromecast, which generation.

There are three Chromecast generations, one Chromecast Audio, a Chromecast Ultra and two Chromecast with Google TV.

Are Qobuz saying you get 24/96 with all of them? In which case what's with the vague statement?

Also remember Chromecast was developed for Spotify, Netflix those type of services. I think it's a great platform but it's obvious it's not made for audiophiles.

That said, if the Qobuz app is reporting 24/96 over Chromecast then I guess it is.

I've had Amazon Music for a while and recently had a months free trial with Qobuz and whilst it would cast 24/96 to Chromecast decided to stick with Amazon for the exact reasons you outlined, much preferring the Amazon App to using the WiiM GUI (or Mconnect) and it's casting options.

I don't really know why Amazon Music has a poorer reputation. No MQA nonsense. 192/24 easily castable.

I've often thought the same and have quite extensively googled all versions of quality of one streaming provider (say Tidal) vs another (say Qobuz) to see what comes up and overall they didn't seem to do badly .... I wonder if it's just bad press from people that don't like them as a company / their practices as opposed anything to do with the quality of music they supply.
A negative from a music perspective, whilst surprisingly they "played ball" with WiiM and the casting option, I belive with a lot of other devices you don't have the same casting option you may with say Tidal and Spotify which may be a reason to chose an alternative.

Personally whilst I don't like Amazon as a company and if there was as good an alternative (including usability and not just for music) I'd swap in an instance (hence my trial of Qobuz) but I'm not in the business of "cutting my nose to spite my face" so just regard them as a necessary evil.

 

[Brantome]

I do not know why protocols like Airplay and Chromecast are still in use.

a) Apple and b) Google

But seriously,here are a lot of Apple users and Apple sees Airplay as the way to cast audio from their devices, but it is in serious need of some work to support hi res as you’re aware. Plus ChromeCast is currently very useful for casting from the Qobuz app up to 24/96 until they release their own Connect mechanism later this year.

 

[Maurizio]

My reading of that was not just ChromeCast devices but non-Google devices with “Chromecast built in” such as those mentioned in this link https://stereo-magazine.com/review/chromecast-audio-review


As I understand it, Spotify Connect was developed around 2013 as was ChromeCast so Spotify didn’t need ChromeCast

hi @Brantome
Correct, with Spotify i use Spotify Connect and it is 24/192, i think Gapeless. It's time that i don?t use Sptify. Now i have the free version after having resigned the subscription to Spotify Premium.