Room Correction Mics

AudioTool shows well. It doesn't show the microphone value from the .cal file, only the microphone correction based on the .cal file. A fragment of my file and a screenshot of AudioTool:

*1000Hz -33,4

20,00 -3,3
20,55 -3,3
21.11-3.2
21,69 -3,1
22,29 -3,0
22,90 -3,0
23,53 -3,0
24,18 -2,9
24,84 -2,8
25,52 -2,7
26,22 -2,5
26,94 -2,4
27,68 -2,4
28,44 -2,4
29,22-2,3
30.03 -2.1
30,85 -2,0
31,70 -1,8
32,57 -1,6
33,46 -1,4
34,38 -1,4
35,33 -1,3
36,30 -1,2
37,29 -1,1
38,32 -0,9 (...)

View attachment 13226

That's why it may seem upside down. Now everything is clear :)
Why does it seem upside down? It clearly is but why?
 
I don't think we can learn much from a lumpy room response. What we need is to compare to a truly flat room response, or a simulated flat input.
Ignore the green bars just look at the calibration points in the centre of the screen. They show a rise at low and high frequencies while the calibration file shows the opposite.
 
It's not reversed. The app doesn't show a graph of the .cal file, it shows what microphone equalization it applies, based on the .cal file. It's a line made of small gray circles with yellow numbers. It's like a reflection in a mirror.

Green bars are noise in my room. Don't look at them :)
 
It's not reversed. The app doesn't show a graph of the .cal file, it shows what microphone equalization it applies, based on the .cal file. It's a line made of small gray circles with yellow numbers. It's like a reflection in a mirror.

Green bars are noise in my room. Don't look at them :)
I know but Dayton Audio insist that if the calibration file contains +3dB then 3dB is ADDED to the measurement when we think it should be subtracted. Your screenshot shows that the inverted values are added so it is consistent with the values being subtracted. Nothing is clear as far as Dayton Audio are concerned.
 
I checked. If the Dayton microphone .cal file has a negative number (-), HouseCurve raises the level (+). If the number is positive (+), then
HouseCurve lowers the level (-).
That's exactly the expected behaviour and exactly the same way REW handles the calibration files.

The first line probably means the volume level at which the microphone has exactly the same characteristics as in the .cal file. So before measuring, you should set the volume so that 1000 Hz is at this level. I have *1000Hz -33.4 (it depends on the shape of the target curve). So you should set the volume to -33.4 dB at 1000 Hz and then the measurement will be accurate.
This question has been answered by Dayton Audio in a somewhat reasonable way, see the link in post #21. It's not a required level to reach specs, it's just the (baseline) sensitivity at 1 kHz:
Per the product page, (-40 dBV, re. 0 dB = 1V/Pa), thus the reference level would be -40dBV.
It's also in the technical data on Dayton's website, even more precisely:
Sensitivity at 1kHz into 1kohm: 10 mV/PA (-40 dBV, ref. 0dB=1V/PA)
Note by: Just the term "sensitivity" indicates that all of the following values in the calibration files should be given as deviation from the base sensitivity ...

What do these numbers mean? A sound pressure of 1 Pascal RMS is defined as 94 dBSPL (see e.g. sengpielaudio.com). A sensitivity of -40 dB means that the DA iMM6 will respond with an output voltage of 10 mV RMS to a 94 dB signal (not 1 V RMS). The first line in the cal file gives the actual value for the specific mic, which will be somewhat above or below -40 dB.

One example, DA iMM-6 with S/N 99-56230:
*1000Hz -40.3
The true sensitivity of this mic is -40.3 dB at 1 kHz.

In theory, this could be used for accurate measurement of the absolute sound pressure level. In practice you'd had to have full control over how the mic's output voltage is converted into an dB reading by the hardware and software in use, which is most likely not possible with mobile apps. Luckily, the absolute level doesn't matter much when just dealing with RC.

Calibration files for the iMM-6C show very similar values in their first lines. Not sure if this is true and trusted information, though. It puts out a digital signal, so we don't care about any voltage, we would want to know the sensitivity relative to 0 dBFS at 94 dB SPL here and -40 dB sounds a little low to me. But I don't have an iMM-6C I could compare to my MiniDSP mics.

Hopefully the guys producing the calibration files know what they are doing.
Amen.

I don't think we can learn much from a lumpy room response. What we need is to compare to a truly flat room response, or a simulated flat input.
Why? The results I got with REW are absolutely in line and clearly show the effect of the calibration file with high precision. See posting #27.

Even if we got a fresh file form one of those companies offering custom calibration They would still need to tell us how they create their files. Only if their file was (roughly) an inverted version of what Dayton Audio provide this would be an indication of DA doing it in a different, unusual way. But I doubt it.

BTW, REW frequency response measurements do contain the measured data along with the cal file data. You can change the cal file at any later time and directly check the difference. Probably most useful if the original measurement did not contain an actual calibration.

It should be noted that the data points of the measurement will generally not align with those in the microphone calibration. There is no standard for the frequency range, the number of data points or their distribution over the frequency range in a calibration file. On the other hands, the number of data points in a measurement typically depends on the sweep length (when performing swept-since measurements). The default with REW is 256 kB, but you can increase the captured data to up to 4 MB. The distribution of data points is determined by the nature of the Fourier transformation and is not linear over frequency. For that reason, tools like HouseCurve and REW do apply interpolation to the calibration data. For that reason, looking at the graph instead of individual data points is as close to the truth as you can get, except for those data points where the frequencies might match, purely by chance.
 
Why? The results I got with REW are absolutely in line and clearly show the effect of the calibration file with high precision. See posting #27.
I was referring only to Slartibartfast's example which shows scant correlation to the effect imposed by the cal file. I'd rather see the corrections applied to a flat line than an unknown.
 
I was referring only to Slartibartfast's example which shows scant correlation to the effect imposed by the cal file. I'd rather see the corrections applied to a flat line than an unknown.
I didn't apply the calibration file to anything in particular, that was just the TV in the background. The calibration curve curving up at low and high frequencies was the important thing. Proving that tech support at Dayton Audio don't have a clue about their own calibration files.
 
Or maybe they think like us, but can't explain it properly, formulate it? That happens.
Or maybe you translate their statements into another language?
I translate into English using Google and sometimes funny things come out or someone gets offended 😁
 
Or maybe they think like us, but can't explain it properly, formulate it? That happens.
Or maybe you translate their statements into another language?
I translate into English using Google and sometimes funny things come out or someone gets offended 😁
This link contains one of the Dayton Audio statements.
"Within the calibration file if there is a negative that proceeds the offset value. (I.E. -2.3dB) then it would be a negative adjustment to bring the microphone in-line with the reference value at 1kHz. If there is no negative present prior to the offset figure it would be a positive adjustment. The calibration files are essentially a filter curve to an extent to align the microphone to a zero point."
 
"Within the calibration file if there is a negative that proceeds the offset value. (I.E. -2.3dB) then it would be a negative adjustment to bring the microphone in-line with the reference value at 1kHz. If there is no negative present prior to the offset figure it would be a positive adjustment. The calibration files are essentially a filter curve to an extent to align the microphone to a zero point."
Explaining the obvious, failing on the details you had asked for ...

1000_F_239053908_WnKsAEWFsyYughB5pAT7l4eZ9GbD1SLO.jpg
(Source: Adobe Stock Images)
 
Can you please remind me which mic is being used during RC on ipad?

Edit: Background I am asking is that I get some strange results with RC. There seems to be a dip at around 80Hz which is not being correct d at all. Therefore I was possibly using the wrong mic (front top of ipad). Or is this a bug?
 

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Can you please remind me which mic is being used during RC on ipad?

Edit: Background I am asking is that I get some strange results with RC. There seems to be a dip at around 80Hz which is not being correct d at all. Therefore I was possibly using the wrong mic (front top of ipad). Or is this a bug?
I don't know which mic WiiM RC is using (it should indicate this on-screen) but a dip might just be impossible to correct if it is caused by cancellation.
 
Yes. I used both Dayton iMM-6 and 6C on my two iPads depending on their connection



There’s still no means of importing calibration files, but there’s a school of opinion (I think @harkpabst among them) that state that the calibration file changes are so small as not to be significant for most situations.
I used wiim rc with imm-6 and houseCurve with the same imm-6 but with calibration file (which I had to insert the results manually to wiim eq) . TOTALLY DIFFERENT RESULTS. HouseCurve gave me amazing upgrade
 
I used wiim rc with imm-6 and houseCurve with the same imm-6 but with calibration file (which I had to insert the results manually to wiim eq) . TOTALLY DIFFERENT RESULTS. HouseCurve gave me amazing upgrade
Eventually WiiM will work on adding calibration files instead of analogue clocks nobody wants 🤣
 
Eventually WiiM will work on adding calibration files instead of analogue clocks nobody wants 🤣
Bahaha, I’m with you clock is not something I want. They can get nice clock from amazon if that’s very important to them. I guarantee you if that was RC feature, you would sign up for beta. The next feature I want to see hoping would get release would be simultaneous usb with sub.
 
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