Sub and pre-gain settings: peak hold VU meter wanted

robtw62

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Jan 12, 2025
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I know this is an oldish thread, but this message is in context here.

I've got 2 Speedwoofer 12s, with wiim ultra crossover set at 90hz, that I stand my stock-standard Yamaha ns-1000m on. Setting these active subwoofers to maximum volume allows me to set subwoofer level in wiim to -15db.

Room correction then still sets PEQ for 20hz to 90hz to high negative values to compensate for the still high subs volume, so I'm not too concerned with the PEQ settings from 90hz to 500hz, the max frequency I do room correction for (using latest beta with this option) and which is also the ns-1000m crossover frequency to the midrange.

I've found, with the help of previous wiim room correction, that the correct midrange and tweeter attenuator settings on the ns-1000m are -4db and -3db respectively, so the speaker sensitivities are probably closer to 87db than the default 90db in my case.

With the above set I've determined the highest pre-gain level I can set in the wiim is +3.5db with 100% volume.

The song that suggests I shouldn't try anything higher on pre-gain is Lionel Ritchie's Three Times A Lady (2008) on Tidal - which is then showing 372watts peak hold on my Yamaha mx-1000 amp and the wiim vu meter only then moves past the +10db level by quite a bit. The music sounds clean but my gut-feel is that the wiim has possibly started or is close to digital clipping

Other Tidal songs, like U2 With Or Without You (1987) and James Taylor Fire And Rain (2011), also peak at about the same >370watts on th mx-1000, but don't peak quite as much over 10db on the VU meter and give me the impression I could go a bit higher still on the wiim pre-gain if it weren't for the Lionel Ritchie song.

I then dialled back to +3db pre-gain on the wiim in case there are other songs in my Tidal playlist that are more demanding than the songs I've tested here.

I've made a feedback suggestion to wiim for a digital vu meter screen with peak hold as an option (love the digital peak hold watts on the mx-1000). Reading this thread now, I realise I should have added 'accurate vu meter' to the suggestion.
 
I know this is an oldish thread, but this message is in context here.

I've got 2 Speedwoofer 12s, with wiim ultra crossover set at 90hz, that I stand my stock-standard Yamaha ns-1000m on. Setting these active subwoofers to maximum volume allows me to set subwoofer level in wiim to -15db.

Room correction then still sets PEQ for 20hz to 90hz to high negative values to compensate for the still high subs volume, so I'm not too concerned with the PEQ settings from 90hz to 500hz, the max frequency I do room correction for (using latest beta with this option) and which is also the ns-1000m crossover frequency to the midrange.

I've found, with the help of previous wiim room correction, that the correct midrange and tweeter attenuator settings on the ns-1000m are -4db and -3db respectively, so the speaker sensitivities are probably closer to 87db than the default 90db in my case.

With the above set I've determined the highest pre-gain level I can set in the wiim is +3.5db with 100% volume.

The song that suggests I shouldn't try anything higher on pre-gain is Lionel Ritchie's Three Times A Lady (2008) on Tidal - which is then showing 372watts peak hold on my Yamaha mx-1000 amp and the wiim vu meter only then moves past the +10db level by quite a bit. The music sounds clean but my gut-feel is that the wiim has possibly started or is close to digital clipping

Other Tidal songs, like U2 With Or Without You (1987) and James Taylor Fire And Rain (2011), also peak at about the same >370watts on th mx-1000, but don't peak quite as much over 10db on the VU meter and give me the impression I could go a bit higher still on the wiim pre-gain if it weren't for the Lionel Ritchie song.

I then dialled back to +3db pre-gain on the wiim in case there are other songs in my Tidal playlist that are more demanding than the songs I've tested here.

I've made a feedback suggestion to wiim for a digital vu meter screen with peak hold as an option (love the digital peak hold watts on the mx-1000). Reading this thread now, I realise I should have added 'accurate vu meter' to the suggestion.
Welcome @robtw62!

I'd like to move this to a dedicated thread since I don't see any relation to the WiiM Pro or the WiiM Pro Plus, but some interesting content, worth to be discussed in it's own right.

Do you mind if I do?
 
I've made a feedback suggestion to wiim for a digital vu meter screen with peak hold as an option (love the digital peak hold watts on the mx-1000). Reading this thread now, I realise I should have added 'accurate vu meter' to the suggestion.
We are some that have been doing that for s long time :p Not much luck yet.

We have asked for a VU meter that shows dBFS with 0 dBFS at peak.

dBFS=20*log10(volume/max-volume)
 
With regards to the wiim ultra and potential for digital clipping, I've got a Yamaha cx-1000 preamp that I don't use as I prefer not having that extra piece of equipment in the mix. It is a pity the wiim ultra doesn't have a 4vrms or higher line out level to improve its capabilities as a preamp.

I am considering using the cx-1000 (set at maximum volume and source direct to bypass the tone controls) as a line amplifier to provide a bit more headroom and reduce the potential for digital clipping, especially since I'm flying blind at the moment and relying on what my ears are telling me.

EDIT: Of course this change will mess with my subwoofers balance, but nothing the room correction can't fix
 
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Using the Yamaha cx-1000 preamp, set on maximum volume and source-direct inline, between the wiim ultra and the Yamaha mx-1000 amp has added a lot of headroom.

I've now got all pre-gain settings at -10db and volume limit set at 88% and I'm getting comparable peak hold output of 378w per channel @ 8ohm to that I was getting before with pre-gain set at +3.5db and no volume limit.

The big difference now is Lionel Ritchie's Three Times A Lady is handled effortlessly and I don't feel the need to wind back the maximum volume by 0.5db.

The wiim VU meter now averages 20db below that previously, maxing out at a bit over -10db, so I suspect I was experiencing the beginning of digital clipping before when testing at these high volumes without the cx-1000 preamp being used.

EDIT: listening at normal volumes I've got to add that the music is sounding a lot better using the cx-1000 preamp. I've always had a minimalist attitude, hence not using the preamp since I acquired the wiim ultra. However I do stand corrected on this point.
 
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Do we really need to split hairs, don't we know what each other means?

0 dBFS is the highest possible value in the digital domain, regardless of processing.

The analogue output signal of a DAC can have a higher voltage than that corresponding to 0 dBFS.

Isn't it just about what we want to see?
 
Well, for me it's obvious, I would like to see peaks being result of the waveform approximation. Still in the digital domain.
 
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