The Audiophile Rabbit Hole

[BowsAndArrows]

well, i think it's related to the fact that a vacuum is the best dielectric possible (used in some of the super high-end cables), and so air is a close second (suspending the cable in air). compared to the plastic/cotton etc dielectrics used in basic cables. apparently everything from the conductor used to cable geometry to the quality of dielectric used can influence skin effect??

see this design from inakustik speaker cables using AIR as a dielectric and complex geometry as an example. (keep in mind the copper version of this starts at €14,400 for 2m ) https://in-akustik.com/ls-8005-air-00771463par apparently they recommend cable risers to get the best performance out of all of their cables...


apparently the audioquest engineers tested various lifters on their own cables and noticed that their "Fog Lifters" design with minimal surface contact resulted in the least RF interference coupling. https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-fog-lifters/ tried to explain some of this stuff...

btw i do not own or use any of these products. just exploring cable lifters/dampers at the moment. considering DIY solutions for now while i learn more

 

[castalla]

Put that way, they're a bargain. Why wait?

 

[slartibartfast]

well, i think it's related to the fact that a vacuum is the best dielectric possible (used in some of the super high-end cables), and so air is a close second (suspending the cable in air). compared to the plastic/cotton etc dielectrics used in basic cables. apparently everything from the conductor used to cable geometry to the quality of dielectric used can influence skin effect??

see this design from inakustik speaker cables using AIR as a dielectric and complex geometry as an example. (keep in mind the copper version of this starts at €14,400 for 2m ) https://in-akustik.com/ls-8005-air-00771463par apparently they recommend cable risers to get the best performance out of all of their cables...
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apparently the audioquest engineers tested various lifters on their own cables and noticed that their "Fog Lifters" design with minimal surface contact resulted in the least RF interference coupling. https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-fog-lifters/ tried to explain some of this stuff...

btw i do not own or use any of these products. just exploring cable lifters/dampers at the moment. considering DIY solutions for now while i learn more

Skin effect is only frequency related, nothing else. Unless you are using Skin effect to mean something else.

 

[Manusz]

Halfway through the Audioquest cable raiser review I sprayed coffee all over my keyboard

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Skin effect is only frequency related, nothing else. Unless you are using Skin effect to mean something else.

wdym? the wire material the primary determinant (and then frequency). even silver plating on copper has an effect.

+ obviously cable geometry + dielectrics have an effect too

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect#Mitigation
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect#Material_effect_on_skin_depth

 

[slartibartfast]

wdym? the wire material the primary determinant (and then frequency). even silver plating on copper has an effect.

+ obviously cable geometry + dielectrics have an effect too

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect#Mitigation
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect#Material_effect_on_skin_depth

I'll give you resistivity of the material but why do you say "obviously dielectrics have an effect"?

 

[BowsAndArrows]

the dielectric material surrounding a conductor can influence the skin effect by affecting the distribution of the electromagnetic fields around the conductor, which in turn can impact the current distribution and resistance.

but remember all of these things (cable geometry etc) also have an effect on proximity effect too. which again, according to the manufacturers - affects the performance of their products... so the discussion of cable risers/cable management in audio is not just related to skin effect that i gave as an example in that earlier post.

 

[hgo58]

the dielectric material surrounding a conductor can influence the skin effect by affecting the distribution of the electromagnetic fields around the conductor, which in turn can impact the current distribution and resistance.

but remember all of these things (cable geometry etc) also have an effect on proximity effect too. which again, according to the manufacturers - affects the performance of their products... so the discussion of cable risers/cable management in audio is not just related to skin effect that i gave as an example in that earlier post.

Have you tried to calculate the effect of all this things have on the audio signal. What is the magnitude of these effects compared to the signal level?

And don't forget the temperature of the cable! It's actually contributing more than you think (thermic noise).

 

[wiimamp user]

There's something like diminishing returns.
But ok if there is a tiny percent improvement and one is willing to pay way more..
You could say for that price and this Little improvement to that person it is worth lets say way and way More...
Ok that's their choice but I think audiophiles always looking for this tiny improvement here and there..
If you have the money for it..

Think it's important to hear comparing systems blind..
But ok if they can achieve this or that more and it's worth it to that person..

 

[hgo58]

There's something like diminishing returns.
But ok if there is a tiny percent improvement and one is willing to pay way more..
You could say for that price and this Little improvement to that person it is worth lets say way and way More...
Ok that's their choice but I think audiophiles always looking for this tiny improvement here and there..
If you have the money for it..

Think it's important to hear comparing systems blind..
But ok if they can achieve this or that more and it's worth it to that person..

It keeps the audiophile companies happy

 

[wiimamp user]

It keeps the audiophile companies happy

There will be always be a market for this.
I think a audiophile is on certain point always want to improve and improve..

But at an certain point those could be tiny..but for them it's worth it I think..

An addiction for audio..that never stops Methellica.magic..

 

[wiimamp user]

Maybe those audio engineers one could also share on audiophiles...on a different manner but also want to improve tis or that tiny detail more.
Those audiophiles creating their own personal audio Walhalla..
Audio freaks..music lovers ..nerds on this or that improvement.
Audiophiles indeed..that's what I said.
If you take the time to enjoy..the most important I would think.

 

[castalla]

What about how the earth's magnetic field plays a role in how a system sounds?

 

[hgo58]

What about how the earth's magnetic field plays a role in how a system sounds?

Yes. And it's changing. That will be difficult

 

[castalla]

Yes. And it's changing. That will be difficult

Somebody will sell a geomagnetic anti-aliasing plinth (containing trace levels of rare earths) to compensate for the shifts.

I myself am developing a new audiophile-standard room & wall emulsion paint (with accompanying spray applicator) - £7500 per 500 ml. can - available in lime-green (since colour also impacts on sound quality).

 

[MCG555]

I myself am developing a new audiophile-standard room & wall emulsion paint (with accompanying spray applicator) - £7500 per 500 ml. can - available in lime-green (since colour also impacts on sound quality).

Where can I sign up? I have a large room! Lime green is perfect!

 

[castalla]

Somebody will sell a geomagnetic anti-aliasing plinth (containing trace levels of rare earths) to compensate for the shifts.

I myself am developing a new audiophile-standard room & wall emulsion paint (with accompanying spray applicator) - £7500 per 500 ml. can - available in lime-green (since colour also impacts on sound quality).

Incredibly, here's a quote from another forum demonstrating the power of plinths (or podiums/podia) :

"Having just placed Townshend Seismic podiums under my ATC SCM40’s plus all my racks and my turntable I did wonder if they would tighten up the sound in that room considerably.

I’m not kidding when I say that adding podiums to my system has been the second biggest improvement I have ever made to the system. The incredible improvement in articulation and bass tuning is actually shocking!"

 

[Zap Rekowski]

In the 80s, I could listen in on other people's phone conversations at silence with the volume control turned all the way up. Somehow I miss it...

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Incredibly, here's a quote from another forum demonstrating the power of plinths (or podiums/podia) :

"Having just placed Townshend Seismic podiums under my ATC SCM40’s plus all my racks and my turntable I did wonder if they would tighten up the sound in that room considerably.

I’m not kidding when I say that adding podiums to my system has been the second biggest improvement I have ever made to the system. The incredible improvement in articulation and bass tuning is actually shocking!"

hmm.. tbh proper speaker damping + isolation is actually quite a huge difference in sound. (whether for better or worse or just different?? that really is case dependent on the system) but it is very noticable in my experience.

i do agree with that sentiment that it's a significant change that easily rivals replacing a component in your audio chain, other than speakers...

 

[castalla]

hmm.. tbh proper speaker damping + isolation is actually quite a huge difference in sound. (whether for better or worse or just different?? that really is case dependent on the system) but it is very noticable in my experience.

i do agree with that sentiment that it's a significant change that easily rivals replacing a component in your audio chain, other than speakers...

At £1400 a pair these podiums should sing and dance through a seismic event such as an earthquake (Shakin' all over)

Guess they're cheap by audiophile standards.