The "PERFECT WiiM Product"

[Steve Woodhouse]

I’m (sort of) against an ‘Ultra Amp’.

Firstly, once the Ultra is upon us, what’s the point? This product should be end-game stuff. Meanwhile, amps are plentiful, and WiiM could start releasing stand alone amps if they wanted. So it’s not necessary.

Secondly, I tend to find, that, if you start doing this sort of thing, the bigger/better amp gets the more featured front end (or the more featured front/end gets the bigger/better amp, depending on how you look at it). I don’t like this. But having several tiers of WiiM Amp makes it more likely.

Now, if an Ultra Amp appears, and brings none of these issues, no problem, hence the ‘sort of’.

But for now, if you want a little all-in-one, the Amp will suffice anything more, I’d buy separates, purely for the flexibility.

 

[cooky560]

I’m (sort of) against an ‘Ultra Amp’.

Firstly, once the Ultra is upon us, what’s the point? This product should be end-game stuff. Meanwhile, amps are plentiful, and WiiM could start releasing stand alone amps if they wanted. So it’s not necessary.

Secondly, I tend to find, that, if you start doing this sort of thing, the bigger/better amp gets the more featured front end (or the more featured front/end gets the bigger/better amp, depending on how you look at it). I don’t like this. But having several tiers of WiiM Amp makes it more likely.

Now, if an Ultra Amp appears, and brings none of these issues, no problem, hence the ‘sort of’.

We are discussing the perfect product, I want something that's as good as my vintage amps, that has the design and form factor of my Wiim Amp, it would look indentical to the current WiiM Amp, but have a better dac & amp stage, and perhaps more inputs, I don't see how this is a bad idea.

As good as the ultra is, it still requires an external amp, and therefor doesn't do this.

 

[Karlaka]

Yes that is the point of WiiM . Bring people to hi fi by making sensible and quality designs at affordable prices… But hi fi is first and price second ( Wiim amp fell into the trap of price only …)

Good morning, guys. Correct, I agree that at $700, it would be a more difficult product to access. Even more so if we add the price of good speakers.
Personally, I would prefer, as I said before, a preamplifier/streamer with bass management. A couple of cheap monoblocks (or if the budget allows, something better) and some decent speakers. More flexibility to change the component that we do not like in the future or that falls short of our needs.
These are obviously my thoughts, very personal.

 

[Karlaka]

We are discussing the perfect product, I want something that's as good as my vintage amps, that has the design and form factor of my Wiim Amp, it would look indentical to the current WiiM Amp, but have a better dac & amp stage, and perhaps more inputs, I don't see how this is a bad idea.

As good as the ultra is, it still requires an external amp, and therefor doesn't do this.

That's also true, and a good way to look at it.
I believe that these debates, if they follow the line of respect, can be very interesting and beneficial, and bring many benefits to us as users and to companies to develop products better focused on the preferences of their customers.

 

[Smartplug]

Until the picture get posted we all just wonder around. Based on what’s reported before, it’s wiim amp without amp with additional connections and screen to accommodate various users. With that said, the amp of your choice is yours. I have 450 watt mono block amp waiting for ultra.

 

[Karlaka]

Until the picture get posted we all just wonder around. Based on what’s reported before, it’s wiim amp without amp with additional connections and screen to accommodate various users. With that said, the amp of your choice is yours. I have 450 watt mono block amp waiting for ultra.

As they say in Argentina: "Vamoooooo!!"
I am also waiting for something with these characteristics to try it with different power amps. We have to lower the hype but it is complicated.

 

[steadyshot]

So here is my view about Amps. If an amp is build well , has good specs, features and sound quality you can use it for decades especially if it has the power to drive properly quality speakers which let’s be honest ,good speakers are always less sensitive with impedance dips etc.. Amp is not a perishable product . I have mentioned the offer of Cyrus one cast for 650£ new . This is a really good all in one amp that can last for many years and drive almost all speakers properly .If Wiim builds trust people won’t hesitate to make an analogous investment . Because if you discount 700 to many years it is cheap . All depends on trust of the brand . And if you want trust you need to build quality products that are durable and sound good !

 

[Karlaka]

So here is my view about Amps. If an amp is build well , has good specs, features and sound quality you can use it for decades especially if it has the power to drive properly quality speakers which let’s be honest ,good speakers are always less sensitive with impedance dips etc.. Amp is not a perishable product . I have mentioned the offer of Cyrus one cast for 650£ new . This is a really good all in one amp that can last for many years and drive almost all speakers properly .If Wiim builds trust people won’t hesitate to make an analogous investment . Because if you discount 700 to many years it is cheap . All depends on trust of the brand . And if you want trust you need to build quality products that are durable and sound good !

I agree with you, that if a device is well built it can last decades. But we must not forget that these streamers are also made up of processors, memories, etc. in addition to the power stage. The latter is imperishable, but a microprocessor or a DAC chip can be seriously affected by the passage of time. The same thing happens with Smart TVs. Nowadays I think it is more convenient to buy a basic projector with good quality and connect it to a TV Box. The panels usually last so much longer than the capacity of the built-in system that they stop updating as the software advances.
Returning to the topic of audio equipment, I insist that (in my opinion) it is much more convenient to separate the streaming/processing section from the power section.

 

[cooky560]

As I get more into streaming than I ever thought I am waiting for the Ultra to bring my old Beomaster 1900 back to work. Goodies from two different generations.

The oldest amp in my collection is a sherwood s7200, my Pro Plus is currently driving a Technics SU-V6 and it sounds lovely.

 

[steadyshot]

I agree with you, that if a device is well built it can last decades. But we must not forget that these streamers are also made up of processors, memories, etc. in addition to the power stage. The latter is imperishable, but a microprocessor or a DAC chip can be seriously affected by the passage of time. The same thing happens with Smart TVs. Nowadays I think it is more convenient to buy a basic projector with good quality and connect it to a TV Box. The panels usually last so much longer than the capacity of the built-in system that they stop updating as the software advances.
Returning to the topic of audio equipment, I insist that (in my opinion) it is much more convenient to separate the streaming/processing section from the power section.

When you buy an amp first is the amp stage and the rest are secondary. The amp is the basis of the system and it is crucial to be of high quality . The others may change . Even the dac can last many years if it is of high quality .

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

If you think about it, the WiiM Amp is effectively three devices in one.

There’s the streaming stage, then there’s the pre amp stage (including the PEQ, bass management, etc.), then the power amp stage.

If any one of those goes wrong, you have to replace the lot.

I could almost imagine a WiiM Non-Streamer. Imagine the WiiM Amp without the streaming part.

If you think about it, the streaming section is only a very small part of the device. Even in the Mini you have the input, ADC, EQ section, and outputs, all apart from the streamer. It costs £90, the actual streaming part accounts for maybe £50 of that?

If they get the Ultra right, it’ll be one of the best pre amps on the market, even if you never used the streaming section.

 

[canard]

When you buy an amp first is the amp stage and the rest are secondary. The amp is the basis of the system and it is crucial to be of high quality . The others may change . Even the dac can last many years if it is of high quality .

funny...
I am rather part of the community which rather considers the preamp as being the main element... ;-)
the sources can vary depending on the needs... and above all in the opposite of your approach, consider that according to the evolution of your choices of speakers, your journey, the bias needed on the amplifier side can vary a lot..
a high quality preamp will remain a little whatever the upstream and downstream...
(my point concerns of course more the slightly ambitious material and not quite the very general public approach )

;-)

 

[canard]

If you think about it, the WiiM Amp is effectively three devices in one.

There’s the streaming stage, then there’s the pre amp stage (including the PEQ, bass management, etc.), then the power amp stage.

If any one of those goes wrong, you have to replace the lot.

I could almost imagine a WiiM Non-Streamer. Imagine the WiiM Amp without the streaming part.

If you think about it, the streaming section is only a very small part of the device. Even in the Mini you have the input, ADC, EQ section, and outputs, all apart from the streamer. It costs £90, the actual streaming part accounts for maybe £50 of that?

If they get the Ultra right, it’ll be one of the best pre amps on the market, even if you never used the streaming section.

what are you talking about?
wiim is discovering the world of audio and their added value is the "linkplay" streaming part....and for the moment they have only ever produced affordable general public equipment using their modestly effective approaches..which is very respectable. ..


(they also discover their own needs for quality control, etc.)

 

[steadyshot]

funny...
I am rather part of the community which rather considers the preamp as being the main element... ;-)
the sources can vary depending on the needs... and above all in the opposite of your approach, consider that according to the evolution of your choices of speakers, your journey, the bias needed on the amplifier side can vary a lot..
a high quality preamp will remain a little whatever the upstream and downstream...
(my point concerns of course more the slightly ambitious material and not quite the very general public approach )

;-)

I mean amp and preamp together ( integrated ). If you have that sorted you can upgrade to whatever speakers later on .

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

what are you talking about?

Well, that’s polite.

If you don’t know what I’m talking about, read my post again.

If you’re confused, ask a specific question, rather than spouting barely intelligible gibberish which little relation to the post to which you’re replying.

 

[canard]

I mean amp and preamp together ( integrated ). If you have that sorted you can upgrade to whatever speakers later on .

ba not too much.. remains the amplification part.. tube..class ab or a..class d..class d high power (even if you see that a quasi-cultural approach, often without rational reason) etc. depending on the approaches , need for speakers, or the types of music mainly listened to etc.

come on stop for me...
everyone has fun as they "mean" ;-)

 

[canard]

Well, that’s polite.

If you don’t know what I’m talking about, read my post again.

If you’re confused, ask a specific question, rather than spouting barely intelligible gibberish which little relation to the post to which you’re replying.

the idea of wiim without streaming made me smile , linkplay skills ...as everything else is very modest...
that's all.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

the idea of wiim without streaming made me smile , linkplay skills ...as everything else is very modest...
that's all.

But it isn’t. A WiiM Amp is £300. So somewhere between £210 and £250 worth are things other than the streamer.

That’s in no way ‘modest’.

 

[steadyshot]

ba not too much.. remains the amplification part.. tube..class ab or a..class d..class d high power (even if you see that a quasi-cultural approach, often without rational reason) etc. depending on the approaches , need for speakers, or the types of music mainly listened to etc.

come on stop for me...
everyone has fun as they "mean" ;-)

If you buy a strong and quality integrated amp what keeps you behind if you u want to upgrade the speakers ?

 

[canard]

If you buy a strong and quality integrated amp what keeps you behind if you u want to upgrade the speakers ?

speakers can be of many types and have very varied needs, or marriages are clearly more or less happy... etc
. but let's stick to that ;-)