The volume of the phono-in is very low.

[Wiimer]

A friend of mine in Japan is having trouble, so please help him out.

He connected a used Ultra's Phono-in to his turntable, then connected that to KEF LS60 speakers via coax. He says the TT's sound is much quieter compared to other sources. The TT has a phono preamp that can be turned on/off, but even when turned on and connected to the Ultra's Line-in, the volume remains low.

Also, when connecting the TT directly to the KEF's RCA-in, the volume issue doesn't occur.

He adjusted the Ultra's pre-gain, but the volume was still insufficient. Setting the Ultra's volume to a fixed 100% provides a reasonably loud level. However, other streaming sources achieve sufficient volume at just 50%.

Since connecting the TT to the KEFs works fine, the TT and cartridge seem to be problem-free.

Are there any other possible causes?
Thanks

 

[d6jg]

What is the cartridge on the TT ?

 

[Wiimer]

What is the cartridge on the TT ?

The turntable is a Yamaha TT-S303, and the cartridge is an Audio-Technica AT-N3600L.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/tt-s303/index.html

I don't own a record player, so I have absolutely no idea.

 

[d6jg]

AI says

"The Audio-Technica ATN3600L (and associated AT3600L cartridge) typically has an output voltage of 4.2 mV. Some specifications may vary slightly, with some listings stating 3.5 mV (1 kHz at 5 cm/s)"

4.2mV should be OK but 3.5 mV is on the low side. As a reference the Ortofon 2M Red - a slightly better spec cartridge - produces 5.5 mV.

This will be where the problem originally emanates. A different pre-amp that features a gain control could help.

 

[Valentino]

There is +/- 10 dB pregain control on the Ultra Phono In. Ask your friend to turn it up, @Wiimer. Settings -> Audio Input -> Pre-Gain

 

[MacPal]

I believe the deck has a switchable (on/off) phono preamp built in so it can output either a line or a phono signal. The Ultra can accept both signal types but you have to select the ‘Phono in’ or ‘Line in’ via the app.

As the sound is quiet it suggests that the preamp built into the deck is not being used so the deck is producing a ‘Phono’ signal and therefore the ‘Phono In’ on the amp (via the app) needs to be selected. If the ‘Line in’ on the app is selected the sound will be very quiet therefore switch to ‘Phono in’ for the amp via the app.

 

[Wiimer]

AI says

"The Audio-Technica ATN3600L (and associated AT3600L cartridge) typically has an output voltage of 4.2 mV. Some specifications may vary slightly, with some listings stating 3.5 mV (1 kHz at 5 cm/s)"

4.2mV should be OK but 3.5 mV is on the low side. As a reference the Ortofon 2M Red - a slightly better spec cartridge - produces 5.5 mV.

This will be where the problem originally emanates. A different pre-amp that features a gain control could help.

I'll suggest the Ortofon 2M Red to him.
Thank you.

 

[d6jg]

I believe the deck has a switchable (on/off) phono preamp built in so it can output either a line or a phono signal. The Ultra can accept both signal types but you have to select the ‘Phono in’ or ‘Line in’ via the app.

As the sound is quiet it suggests that the preamp built into the deck is not being used so the deck is producing a ‘Phono’ signal and therefore the ‘Phono In’ on the amp (via the app) needs to be selected. If the ‘Line in’ on the app is selected the sound will be very quiet therefore switch to ‘Phono in’ for the amp via the app.

He said he has tried that in the original post.

 

[Wiimer]

There is +/- 10 dB pregain control on the Ultra Phono In. Ask your friend to turn it up, @Wiimer. Settings -> Audio Input -> Pre-Gain

He said he had already tried pre-gain. However, since I didn't know how he had set it up, I suggested setting the phono gain to +10dB and setting all other inputs to -10dB. (I don't know the results yet.)
Thanks

 

[harkpabst]

I don't think that a cartridge swap will resolve the issue. The 2M Red certainly is a more advanced cartridge than the 3600L, but the difference between 3.5 mV and 5.5 mV (@ 1 kHz 5 cm/s) is less than 4 dB. If 10 dB of pre-gain didn't help, then < 4 dB are not going to help either (even if they would come on top).

Streaming and modern digital sources being clearly louder than most phono pre-amp's output is absolutely normal. However, an additional 10 to 12 dB should be all that is needed to compensate for that. From what you have reported your friend has been trying both option:

• Setting the TT-S303 Phono EQ to ON and connecting the cable to the WiiM Ultra's line input
• Setting the TT-S303 Phono EQ to THROUGH and connecting the cable to the WiiM Ultra's phono input

But I still think that there's something fundamentally wrong in his setup or we are not comparing apples to apples. The (magnificent) LS60 don't even have a phono input, but just an RCA line input, so in this scenario the TT-S303 must be set to Phono EQ = ON. This makes me wonder how your friend has connected the WiiM Ultra to the LS60 and if he's comparing to the Ultra's streaming features or to the LS60's built-in streamer. I suppose (but I may be wrong) that he picked the Ultra because of its particular streaming features and maybe EQ/RoomFit over the streamer built into the LS60.