Turntable not very loud, recommendations if Phono Preamp may help?

[gethen]

Hi Community, seeking advice...

My setup: 1. WiiM Amp, 2. Audio-Technika AT-LPW40WN turntable, 3. B&W 607 S2 speakers.

Everything works just fine, and via AirPlay and digital sources I can get "party loud" volume, but turntable volume, with the turntable set to Phono output and using the built in phono stage, it's just not very loud, even at full volume.

Would setting the turntable to line output and adding a Phono Preamp boost the signal?

Recommendations on Phono Preamps?

Any other solutions or recommendations?

Thanks for your assistance!

 

[pieterv1]

First of all: you need to feed a line-level signal into the WiiM Amp's aux input. A phono signal coming directly from a turntable without a built-in preamp would not give you good results because the level is too low and it lacks the RIAA correction (your records will sound very harsh and thin, lacking a lot of bottom end).

Here you're are contradicting yourself a little bit

with the turntable set to Phono output and using the built in phono stage

When the turntable is set to "Phono", you're actually bypassing its built-in preamp. You need to set it to "Line" so it'll use the the built-in preamp to bring the signal up to line-level, suited to connect to the aux input of the WiiM Amp. No additional external preamp necessary.

Give it a try and let us know your findings

 

[gethen]

Thanks for the reply! Yes, you are correct, I had my terminology wrong, the turntable is indeed set to Line Output, so that is clear... but same issue with volume. Any thoughts on how to best proceed from here?

 

[Jls]

I’m troubled by the lack of discussion of sound quality. Phono requires significant equalization, and line does not.

The switch setting should radically alter the sound.

What brand and model turntable,and cartridge. Do you have any documentation?

Audio-Technica AT-LPW40WN Fully Manual Belt-Drive Turntable

The AT-LPW40WN is a fully manual, belt-drive turntable designed to give you optimal high-fidelity audio reproduction from vinyl. It features an aesthetically pleasing anti-resonance MDF (medium density fiberboard) plinth with simulated walnut wood veneer to limit low-frequency acoustical...

skybygramophone.com

Is that it?

Pre-amp “PHONO”: 4.0 mV nominal at 1 kHz, 5 cm/sec
Pre-amp “LINE”: 200 mV nominal at 1 kHz, 5 cm/sec

200 mv is a bit on the low side for line output, but shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[gethen]

I’m troubled by the lack of discussion of sound quality. Phono requires significant equalization, and line does not.

The switch setting should radically alter the sound.

What brand and model turntable,and cartridge. Do you have any documentation?

Audio-Technica AT-LPW40WN Fully Manual Belt-Drive Turntable

The AT-LPW40WN is a fully manual, belt-drive turntable designed to give you optimal high-fidelity audio reproduction from vinyl. It features an aesthetically pleasing anti-resonance MDF (medium density fiberboard) plinth with simulated walnut wood veneer to limit low-frequency acoustical...

skybygramophone.com

Is that it?



200 mv is a bit on the low side for line output, but shouldn’t be a problem.

Yes, that is the turntable.

 

[gethen]

So should I read your answer to mean that a separate Phono Preamp with (significantly) more than 200 mv power output may increase volume?

 

[harkpabst]

So should I read your answer to mean that a separate Phono Preamp with (significantly) more than 200 mv power output may increase volume?

The line input sensitivity of the WiiM amp is ~2 Volts, which means 2000 mV. So, it's integrated power amp will only reach maximum output power when fed said 2 Volts. Your turntables built-in phono Pre-amp is far from that.

Two possible options (keeping the TT):
1. Buy an external phono pre with sufficient gain, thus output voltage.
2. Buy a line level booster that can be set to 15 to 20 dB gain.

Unfortunately, I don't have any clear recommendations from the tip of my head.

 

[rccarguy]

So should I read your answer to mean that a separate Phono Preamp with (significantly) more than 200 mv power output may increase volume?

I don't see why it's not ok with the record player set to "phono" as that has a built in stage

 

[azoriusmage]

I don't see why it's not ok with the record player set to "phono" as that has a built in stage

It should be set to line to be plugged into the amp

 

[dangermouse]

I don't see why it's not ok with the record player set to "phono" as that has a built in stage

Nooooooooooooooo!

Set to "phono" you get an unamplified signal without the RIAA curve correction. That needs to be fed into a dedicated phono preamp or an amplfier with a built-in phono stage.

 

[rccarguy]

well it's one of them you know what I mean (into line level input)

 

[azoriusmage]

well it's one of them you know what I mean (into line level input)

Not sure what you mean?

 

[rccarguy]

One will be low volume the other should be at a level acceptable in a regular line level source.

If you've tried both it's possible the built in phono stage is faulty.

 

[slartibartfast]

One will be low volume the other should be at a level acceptable in a regular line level source.

If you've tried both it's possible the built in phono stage is faulty.

It could just need more gain to match other inputs. 200mV is low.

 

[d6jg]

If the TTs LINE output is too quiet then yes get a PHONO pre-amp e.g.something like this which is well built and does a basic job but almost certainly better than the in-built one - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-...bf0d7183364984914ccc36cfd13&th=1&gad_source=1

 

[pieterv1]

An external phono preamp with a volume control might be ideal. Something like the ART Precision Phono Pre:

ART Precision Phono Pre Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the ART Precision Phono Pre. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $81. The look reminds of Radio Shack equipment of 1970s! So outdated but I guess it keeps their costs down. You get variable gain which is handy together with a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[harkpabst]

Let's stop that discussion about the setting of the built-in phono pre-amp. @gethen has long clarified that the wording was wrong but the setting was correct. Heck, he even did included a picture!



So, yes there is a phono pre-amp in use but the music still isn't loud enough. The output voltage of that phono amp is just too low. Period.

Unfortunately, the Behringer PP400 wouldn't change anything. Its gain is just 35 dB, sound will be just as low as with the built-in phono pre of the AT-LPW40WN. No difference.

The Art Precision Phono Preamp is a little better suited as it has a maximum gain of 43 dB for MM cartridges, but still not ideal. It also has a 63 dB gain setting for MC cartridges, but it cannot be used with MM pickups because it also switches to input impedance to 25 or 100 ohms (unusable for MM).

The Art DJPRE II Phono Preamp is a little less expensive and offers a little more gain (45 dB), so it would be a better choice.

ART DJ Pre II

Phono Preamp With the DeeJayPRE you can connect a turntable to a conventional line input such as a mixing console, a sound card or a tape deck. The DeeJayPRE is a phono preamp with built-in RIAA equalisation and is simply put between turntables and...

www.thomannmusic.com

Phono pre-amps offering higher and switchable gain are usually more expensive. You could buy an ifi Zen Phono 3 (offering 4 different gain settings between 36 and 72 dB, each of these gain settings can be used with the 47 kOhm input impedance required for MM), but it'll set you back around 250 bucks. Might be overkill for this turntable.

ZEN Phono 3 by iFi audio - Phono stage for turntables.

Enhance your turntable experience with ZEN Phono 3, our audiophile phono stage; featuring an intelligent subsonic filter for warped LPs & vinyl.

ifi-audio.com

Finally, it's possible to just insert a line level booster between the turntables line out and the WiiM Amp's line input. This would be one cheap example at 26 USD. Pre-caution: I have no idea how it might sound and if it even comes with a power brick at this price point.

Amazon.com

 

[dangermouse]

Please also understand that the difference between phono and line level outputs from the turntable involves more than just the output level.

There seems to be some very basic misunderstandings in some of these posts.

 

[harkpabst]

Please also understand that the difference between phono and line level outputs from the turntable involves more than just the output level.

There seems to be some very basic misunderstandings in some of these posts.

You are right, of course, but this is all covered in this case.

The Audio-Technica AT-LPW40WN does have a built-in phono preamp doing the RIAA equalisation and it's been set up correctly by @gethen . It's really only a matter of insufficient gain here.

 

[cooky560]

I use this https://shop.project-audio.com/product/phono-box/ with my WiiM as my vintage turntable in the WiiM amp room has no phono stage.

I have had no issues with gain. Perhaps this will help you?