Turntable not very loud, recommendations if Phono Preamp may help?

[dangermouse]

The Audio-Technica AT-LPW40WN does have a built-in phono preamp doing the RIAA equalisation and it's been set up correctly by @gethen . It's really only a matter of insufficient gain here.

Agreed on that. Some of the other postings seem a tad confused though.

 

[harkpabst]

I use this https://shop.project-audio.com/product/phono-box/ with my WiiM as my vintage turntable in the WiiM amp room has no phono stage.

I have had no issues with gain. Perhaps this will help you?

Even if the output is loud enough for you, this is not necessarily the case with a different cartridge. The Phono Box as 40 dB of gain. A little better than what's built into the AT turntable, for sure. But more would obviously be better. The output voltage of the AT VM95 series is on the lower end of what's normal.

 

[slartibartfast]

Even if the output is loud enough for you, this is not necessarily the case with a different cartridge. The Phono Box as 40 dB of gain. A little better than what's built into the AT turntable, for sure. But more would obviously be better. The output voltage of the AT VM95 series is on the lower end of what's normal.

FWIW I have always found that the phono input of any amp is quieter than line level inputs. With a normal amp you can just wind the volume control up. The gain structure of the WiiM amp combined with the input range of the line input means you can't always achieve a high enough volume.
I wonder if the input voltage range could be made switchable.

 

[harkpabst]

FWIW I have always found that the phono input of any amp is quieter than line level inputs. With a normal amp you can just wind the volume control up. The gain structure of the WiiM amp combined with the input range of the line input means you can't always achieve a high enough volume.
I wonder if the input voltage range could be made switchable.

Two ways to do it:

• Change the hardware and introduce switches for different gain settings (could be electrical switches, not necessarily manual hardware)
  This is definitely more complex and would increase costs for all, bringing potential benefit for some. A wrongly chosen setting could result in severe clipping, potentially damaging amps or speakers.
• Allow some digital gain
  Fast and easy to implement, but we would loose some resolution/add noise. Again, a wrongly chosen setting could overdrive the chain.

So far WiiM have chosen the gain structure of the Amp to be absolutely on the safe side.

 

[calbruc]

There are other threads with people having the same volume issues with turntables.

I have a U-Turn Orbit and the built-in Pluto 2 preamp has a gain of 40 dB. When switching between the line-in and streaming, the turntable was noticeably quieter than streaming input, which was not the case on my previous amp. I bought a Schiit Mani 2, which has adjustable gain settings, set it to 48 dB, and it's much better. It can also go up to 60, but I don't think I'll need that much.

 

[Burnside]

Maybe WiiM's new pre-gain feature could help?

 

[calbruc]

Unable to check right now, but I thought the pre-gain was only introduced in the Ultra? If I had known that was coming to the Wiim Amp as a potential fix I wouldn't have bought a new phono pre-amp!

 

[Burnside]

You are correct it’s just the Ultra at the moment, but I don’t see anything that would suggest it’s not coming to other models, nor can I think why it wouldn’t. I’ll raise a ticket to WiiM and ask

 

[Burnside]

WiiM replied “we plan to support this feature on other WiiM products in the future. Stay tuned for updates!”

 

[jpgr1962]

There are other threads with people having the same volume issues with turntables.

I have a U-Turn Orbit and the built-in Pluto 2 preamp has a gain of 40 dB. When switching between the line-in and streaming, the turntable was noticeably quieter than streaming input, which was not the case on my previous amp. I bought a Schiit Mani 2, which has adjustable gain settings, set it to 48 dB, and it's much better. It can also go up to 60, but I don't think I'll need that much.

I have a Fluance RT85N turntable with a Nagaoka MP200 stylus on a MP110 body. I run that into my Schiit Mani 2 preamp at 42 gain. I also have the WiiM mini. Recently, I decided to do an A/B comparison between playing an album on vinyl and Apple Music. I played the vinyl first and synced the album on Apple so I could go back and forth. I was surprised to find that streaming via Apple Music produced a better sound. An increase in clarity, loudness, bass - an overall muscular sound. I realized that I had the EQ on when streaming and decided to add EQ to vinyl playback as well.

I placed the WiiM mini in between the Mani 2 and my amplifier (Marantz PM8005). However, I found it necessary to lower the Mani to 33db of gain due to distortion. After adding the same EQ when playing vinyl, I found that it was still lacking compared to streaming.

I figured lowering the gain on the Mani had something to do with this, so I purchased the WiiM Ultra to use as a preamp to avoid distortion and the need to lower the gain. Irregardless, my conclusions were the same. Streaming won hands down. I had previously done A/B comparisons between vinyl and Bluetooth via my Sony DH-STR190 amplifier and vinyl always sounded better. I used these A/B comparisons to showcase to people the superior sound of vinyl…

You gave me a good idea to increase the Mani to 48db of gain, but I will have to remove the WiiM mini from the chain due to the distortion. However, it will be hard to be part with the ability to add EQ when playing vinyl. Plus, I’m not sure the increase in gain will be a match for the WiiM mini + EQ. But I’ll give it a shot sometime this week.

Btw., can anyone explain why I have been getting these results? Do I simply prefer the sound of streaming or am I missing something?