Ultra and Fosi setup advice

[Iggy]

Hi all,

Could do with a bit of guidance please, from those who know more than me!

My current set up is an Ultra going into a pair of Fosi V3 Monos (with the stock op amps replaced with Sparko’s as3602s) via RCA and onto a pair of Oberon 5’s. To be honest I’m pretty happy with the output , listening mostly to content from Tidal.

However like most of us, I’m always looking to squeeze out a bit more, so I recently invested in a ZD3 DAC/pre amp which I connected in between the Ultra and the V3 Monos.

I have tried connecting the Ultra to the ZD3 by both Coax and USB, and the ZD3 to the V3 Monos by both XLR and RCA.

I was expecting the output ‘with’ the ZD3 in the chain to be better, it’s a slightly better DAC on paper than the one in the Ultra (as I understand it) and the XLR I assumed would also improve performance.

However I’m feeling rather disappointed with it all and reckon it sounds better to me without the ZD3 in the chain.

The main difference I noticed was the drop in volume (or gain)…when using the ZD3 to control the volume (Ultra output set to 100%) I seem to be cranking it up more than previously to get a similar volume?

Secondly, the sound/output seems suppressed somehow…or perhaps less punchy and dynamic overall?

Am I doing something wrong with the set up?

Are the stock op amps in the ZD3 having an adverse affect on the output given I’ve got upgraded ones in the V3’s?

Or are my expectations simply just too high, and it’s highly possible that the setup could just sound/perform better without the ZD3 and the Ultra going direct to the V3’s?

Thanks all

 

[hgo58]

The Ultra DAC (ESS Sabre ES9038 Q2M) is a pretty good one and you will need a much much better DAC (if that exists) to really improve anything.

Other DACs may sound different and some people like that but the technical performance of the Ultra is very good, also compared with other highend DACs

The XLR v. RCA makes no difference except if you have very long cables.

 

[harkpabst]

I have tried connecting the Ultra to the ZD3 by both Coax and USB, and the ZD3 to the V3 Monos by both XLR and RCA.

I was expecting the output ‘with’ the ZD3 in the chain to be better, it’s a slightly better DAC on paper than the one in the Ultra (as I understand it) and the XLR I assumed would also improve performance.

However I’m feeling rather disappointed with it all and reckon it sounds better to me without the ZD3 in the chain.

XLR connections do not magically improve the sound quality in any way. It's just that they are (way) less prone to interference. The balanced connection will also result in a higher signal to noise ratio, but it also depends on the output of the pre-amp what the overall SNR will be. If your setup isn't plagued by RFI and the SNR with the RCA connection is simply high enough to not be audible, then there's nothing to be gained from balanced connections, except peace of mind.

The main difference I noticed was the drop in volume (or gain)…when using the ZD3 to control the volume (Ultra output set to 100%) I seem to be cranking it up more than previously to get a similar volume?

This is nothing to be worried about, as long as you can reach the max. volume you desire with the pre-amp fully cranked up.

Many people still confuse gain and power and assume that a volume knob turned fully clockwise must put some sort of "stress" on their components, surely making the amp combo sound "congested". No, this is simply not the case.

Or are my expectations simply just too high, and it’s highly possible that the setup could just sound/perform better without the ZD3 and the Ultra going direct to the V3’s?

I wouldn't be to surprised.

Your and only your ears are the judge.

 

[Poultrygeist]

According to ASR the Ultra's DAC and the ZD3 measurements are comparable. I'm tempted to purchase a ZD3 as I believe my cheap 12v Pyramid linear PS would make an audible improvement like it's done with other12v devices. I'd love to try a 12v FiiO R2R or J2 for the same reason.

Fosi Audio ZD3 Balanced DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Fosi Audio ZD3 balanced stereo DAC. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $179.99. The ZD3 manages at the same time to look elegant/modern and cute! The choice of round display is smart as is displaying the level the largest in the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[hgo58]

I believe my cheap 12v Pyramid linear PS would make an audible improvement like it's done with other12v devices.

Why should it? The DAC chipset don't care and if it makes a difference on the analog part it is badly design.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Why should it? The DAC chipset don't care and if it makes a difference on the analog part it is badly design.

Most wall worts are inexpensive switching modes which do induce noise.

 

[hgo58]

Most wall worts are inexpensive switching modes which do induce noise.

Noise into what?
How will it change the sound?

A very badly designed analog stage may pick up the noise but it is usually high frequency and will not be propagated.

 

[Poultrygeist]

 

[hgo58]

So -100dB noise at 25kHz with the "bad" power supply. And it looks like -108dB with the "good" power supply? It is hard to see as the guy doesn't show it. Just talks about a big difference.

Nothing you can hear at all.

 

[Poultrygeist]

I first started using linear power supplies with some of my early TPA 3116 amps and immediately realized the improvement they made in SQ vs the cheap SMPS wall worts. The linear regulated here is an Astron I bought second hand for $35. It was used by a ham operator and probably had thousands of hours on it yet it was immediately obvious what a difference it made.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Some years ago I tried this inexpensive Pyramid linear with a tube preamp which turned into one of the longest threads on AK. Many members did the same and marveled at the results. It's one thing to question something that you've never tried but as they say experience is the best teacher.