Uses BT 5.3 hardware but what limits codecs usage?

[motleypixel]

Hi,

I've only recently started reading up on bluetooth versions and codecs. Because I'm experiencing some tramsmittion quality issues to my Sony XM-4's I'm wondering the following: 1. On the specs page it only says BT 5.3 so I assume both transmit and receive is version 5.3? 2. What are all the codecs supported for both transmit and receive over BT?

Thank you,
Roy

 

[Burnside]

WiiM devices only support the SBC/AAC codecs. While some have asked that LDAC be added to that, I don’t recall WiiM making any commitment on that front.

I think what some have done with the ultra is use a USB BT dongle to support Bluetooth headphone use for the higher level codecs. If I recall, @Wiimer has done so and may be able to advise what adapter they used.

 

[motleypixel]

WiiM devices only support the SBC/AAC codecs. While some have asked that LDAC be added to that, I don’t recall WiiM making any commitment on that front.

I think what some have done with the ultra is use a USB BT dongle to support Bluetooth headphone use for the higher level codecs. If I recall, @Wiimer has done so and may be able to advise what adapter they used.

What's the driving source to limit codec usage? Is this a limitation of the internal hardware of the WiiM Ultra or just a inside engineering department decision to not release fw to support other codecs? To me if there's no licensing issues, I can't see why codec availability would be limited?

Thanks,
Roy

 

[Burnside]

Might be a combination of those factors. Wiim devices are built around various Linkplay modules so come with BT chips that only support certain codecs. Others codecs may be possible to be coded e.g. LDAC, supposedly without the need for a licence while others may need licences to be acquired and paid for. I’m no expert when it comes to BT codecs either so maybe WiiM are best placed to answer whether they have it in mind to expand beyond SBC/AAC codecs.

While it might mean the purchase of a BT dongle to get those additional codecs, it’ll be quicker than waiting for them to be developed by WiiM themselves I’d guess….

 

[motleypixel]

Might be a combination of those factors. Wiim devices are built around various Linkplay modules so come with BT chips that only support certain codecs. Others codecs may be possible to be coded e.g. LDAC, supposedly without the need for a licence while others may need licences to be acquired and paid for. I’m no expert when it comes to BT codecs either so maybe WiiM are best placed to answer whether they have it in mind to expand beyond SBC/AAC codecs.

While it might mean the purchase of a BT dongle to get those additional codecs, it’ll be quicker than waiting for them to be developed by WiiM themselves I’d guess….

Thank you Burnside. I suppose I should NOT correlate my streaming quality issue that frequently occurs to my Sony XM-4 headphones with lack of other codecs suck as Sony's LDAC correct? The support team has another ticket via the app while the issue was occurring again so they should also have the device logs as well. Again, this streaming quality issues does not occur with my FiiO DAC, my Samsung Galaxy S22 phone or my iPad.

 

[Wiimer]

Thank you Burnside. I suppose I should NOT correlate my streaming quality issue that frequently occurs to my Sony XM-4 headphones with lack of other codecs suck as Sony's LDAC correct? The support team has another ticket via the app while the issue was occurring again so they should also have the device logs as well. Again, this streaming quality issues does not occur with my FiiO DAC, my Samsung Galaxy S22 phone or my iPad.

I would like to ask you a few questions.

What specific sound quality issues are you experiencing?

What is the distance between the Ultra and headphone?

Where is the Ultra set up?
(Are there any obstructions nearby?)

Does the same problem occur when the phone is connected to the Ultra via Bluetooth and played over the speakers?

Is the headphone paired to devices other than the Ultra?


If possible, please try placing the Ultra on as high a surface as possible and use the headphone in close proximity. Also remove all devices paired to the headphone and check operation.

 

[Wiimer]

Thank you Burnside. I suppose I should NOT correlate my streaming quality issue that frequently occurs to my Sony XM-4 headphones with lack of other codecs suck as Sony's LDAC correct? The support team has another ticket via the app while the issue was occurring again so they should also have the device logs as well. Again, this streaming quality issues does not occur with my FiiO DAC, my Samsung Galaxy S22 phone or my iPad.

I have read some of your earlier posts and this part concerns me.

if I pause then play again or a get a notification on my phone the playback becomes partially garbled.

It is clearly strange that the XM-4's sound is disturbed when notifications are received on your phone, even though the Ultra is connected to the Sony XM-4 via Bluetooth.

This would indicate that the XM-4 is simultaneously connected to the Ultra and the smartphone.

As mentioned earlier, delete all devices paired to the XM-4 and establish a Bluetooth connection with the Ultra and the XM-4 alone. (or try resetting the XM-4.)

 

[jfbuk]

Hi,

I've only recently started reading up on bluetooth versions and codecs. Because I'm experiencing some tramsmittion quality issues to my Sony XM-4's I'm wondering the following: 1. On the specs page it only says BT 5.3 so I assume both transmit and receive is version 5.3? 2. What are all the codecs supported for both transmit and receive over BT?

Thank you,
Roy

Newer versions of Bluetooth should be backwards compatible if the device/chip manufacturer has implemennted the standard correctly. A Bluetooth connection will in effect be at a the lowest specification standard of the devices connecting regardless of codec.
Note that the Bluetooth specification versions and Bluetooth codecs are two distinct things.
A Bluetooth version contains a mass of technical requirements but does not mandate support of multiple codecs.
All Bluetooth devices must, at a minimum, support SBC.
So a Bluetooth 5.3 device must support SBC but does not have to support any other codec, e.g. aptX, LDAC etc

 

[Burnside]

To be entirely above board, the use of Bluetooth headphones with WiiM devices has been problematic for some users, but not others. Here’s a link to a post where someone had a positive experience with Sony XM5 headphones, but it’s true to say others haven’t been as lucky: https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/bluetooth-stutter.1806/post-61311

 

[motleypixel]

I would like to ask you a few questions.

What specific sound quality issues are you experiencing?

What is the distance between the Ultra and headphone?

Where is the Ultra set up?
(Are there any obstructions nearby?)

Does the same problem occur when the phone is connected to the Ultra via Bluetooth and played over the speakers?

Is the headphone paired to devices other than the Ultra?


If possible, please try placing the Ultra on as high a surface as possible and use the headphone in close proximity. Also remove all devices paired to the headphone and check operation.

What specific sound quality issues are you experiencing? A: It's also in my ticket to support, but it's a jittery playback followed by a series of faint ticks in sequence about 1 sec apart for about 6 times, then that pauses a few seconds and it repeats, but the jittery/slightly garbled playback is constant.

What is the distance between the Ultra and headphone? A: Happens at any distance. First time was about 12ft then I tried only a couple of feet. I will say with the WiiM I need to stay w/in about 15-20ft whereas with my FiiO BTA30 Pro I could do 25ft and be inside my garage w/o any issue.

Where is the Ultra set up?
(Are there any obstructions nearby?) A: It's on a teak bookshelf about waist height, exactly where my previous BT transceiver (FiiO BTA30 Pro) used to sit. Only difference and this could be something to consider is that now I have an S.M.S.L. PL100 CD Transport sitting on-top of the WiiM Ultra and it's on by default. The poor playback occurs if the source is any source though, wifi, phono in, even the opt in for CD transport. I can try again this evening with keeping the CD transport off?

Does the same problem occur when the phone is connected to the Ultra via Bluetooth and played over the speakers? A: No, only in BT transmit to my only BT headphones Sony XM-4

Is the headphone paired to devices other than the Ultra? B: Well yes, at first, because my phone has it remembered and it pairs too. Now I have tried turning off the phone BT so that only the WiiM pairs to the Sony XM-4s and I thought I had found the issue as it took about 20 mins to reproduce the problem again. So it "seems" when my XM-4s are paired to both the WiiM and my phone the issue occurs more frequently.

If possible, please try placing the Ultra on as high a surface as possible and use the headphone in close proximity. Also remove all devices paired to the headphone and check operation. A: Okay I can try moving, but that is not ideal, let me give some photos here for the setup.

 

[motleypixel]

I have read some of your earlier posts and this part concerns me.



It is clearly strange that the XM-4's sound is disturbed when notifications are received on your phone, even though the Ultra is connected to the Sony XM-4 via Bluetooth.

This would indicate that the XM-4 is simultaneously connected to the Ultra and the smartphone.

As mentioned earlier, delete all devices paired to the XM-4 and establish a Bluetooth connection with the Ultra and the XM-4 alone. (or try resetting the XM-4.)

I'm attaching the pop-up that I sometimes receive on my Galaxy S22 where I run the WiiM app. I've never seen this before, is it coming from the WiiM app or my phone? What does it mean?

Thank you,
Roy

 

[Burnside]

If you still have the BTW30 Pro, I’d be tempted to use that connected to the Ultra by optical or USB…

 

[agriff79]

I also have the FiiO BTA30 Pro and it's definitely superior for BT transmission range than my Amp Pro. I put that down the fact it has an external aerial.

 

[Wiimer]

What specific sound quality issues are you experiencing? A: It's also in my ticket to support, but it's a jittery playback followed by a series of faint ticks in sequence about 1 sec apart for about 6 times, then that pauses a few seconds and it repeats, but the jittery/slightly garbled playback is constant.

What is the distance between the Ultra and headphone? A: Happens at any distance. First time was about 12ft then I tried only a couple of feet. I will say with the WiiM I need to stay w/in about 15-20ft whereas with my FiiO BTA30 Pro I could do 25ft and be inside my garage w/o any issue.

Where is the Ultra set up?
(Are there any obstructions nearby?) A: It's on a teak bookshelf about waist height, exactly where my previous BT transceiver (FiiO BTA30 Pro) used to sit. Only difference and this could be something to consider is that now I have an S.M.S.L. PL100 CD Transport sitting on-top of the WiiM Ultra and it's on by default. The poor playback occurs if the source is any source though, wifi, phono in, even the opt in for CD transport. I can try again this evening with keeping the CD transport off?

Does the same problem occur when the phone is connected to the Ultra via Bluetooth and played over the speakers? A: No, only in BT transmit to my only BT headphones Sony XM-4

Is the headphone paired to devices other than the Ultra? B: Well yes, at first, because my phone has it remembered and it pairs too. Now I have tried turning off the phone BT so that only the WiiM pairs to the Sony XM-4s and I thought I had found the issue as it took about 20 mins to reproduce the problem again. So it "seems" when my XM-4s are paired to both the WiiM and my phone the issue occurs more frequently.

If possible, please try placing the Ultra on as high a surface as possible and use the headphone in close proximity. Also remove all devices paired to the headphone and check operation. A: Okay I can try moving, but that is not ideal, let me give some photos here for the setup.

Thank you for answering my questions in detail.

Please temporarily move the CD transport on the Ultra to another location and test the headphone over Bluetooth connection again.

I'm attaching the pop-up that I sometimes receive on my Galaxy S22 where I run the WiiM app. I've never seen this before, is it coming from the WiiM app or my phone? What does it mean?

I do not know the details, but it appears that the phone is failing to detect the Bluetooth device. (please attach screen shot to the ticket and report it to support.)

If restarting the phone does not solve the problem, it may be worth trying a network reset of the phone; also try reinstalling the WiiM app.

 

[Wiimer]

I also have the FiiO BTA30 Pro and it's definitely superior for BT transmission range than my Amp Pro. I put that down the fact it has an external aerial.

In my previous tests of the Ultra, I was able to playback on a Bluetooth earbuds from about 10m (32 feet) away; I don't think there are any major issues with the Ultra's Bluetooth antenna.

 

[Zap Rekowski]

This should be processed/observed:

https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/articles/00097458

Furthermore, the FW should be updated via the headphone app and/or a factory reset should be carried out in the event of problems.

P.S.: LDAC is not a bad codec, as you assume. It is the best for audio, with the best possible transmission quality.

However, since you are using your headphones with WiiM, only SBC/AAC is available. LDAC is therefore not available because both devices (transmitter/receiver) must support the same codec.

Also interesting:

Understanding Bluetooth codecs

Want to know more about wireless audio? Take our crash course in Bluetooth codecs, bitrate, standards, and uses from SBC to LDAC and more.

www.soundguys.com

Different Bluetooth Versions Explained: From 1.0 to 5.4 Version

Each update in Bluetooth versions brings improvements in speed, range, & power efficiency. Here is a detailed overview of the features & compatibility of different Bluetooth versions.

soundhub.io

 

[motleypixel]

To be entirely above board, the use of Bluetooth headphones with WiiM devices has been problematic for some users, but not others. Here’s a link to a post where someone had a positive experience with Sony XM5 headphones, but it’s true to say others haven’t been as lucky: https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/bluetooth-stutter.1806/post-61311

Thank you.

Thank you for answering my questions in detail.

Please temporarily move the CD transport on the Ultra to another location and test the headphone over Bluetooth connection again.


I do not know the details, but it appears that the phone is failing to detect the Bluetooth device. (please attach screen shot to the ticket and report it to support.)

If restarting the phone does not solve the problem, it may be worth trying a network reset of the phone; also try reinstalling the WiiM app.

Okay, really hope I don't have to relocate my CD Transport as that's the perfect place for it. Maybe I should try to reproduce with the CD transport powered off? Again, it normally comes on with my full system power up.

I've attached all the images and the phone BLE pop up to the ticket.

I know how to reset network on phone, it's not a big deal. Re-installing the WiiM app as in "uninstall and re-install" will I loose all my RC's, EQs, and presets? Hopefully they are stored on the cloud?

Thank you for the prompt responses and help.
Roy

 

[motleypixel]

I also have the FiiO BTA30 Pro and it's definitely superior for BT transmission range than my Amp Pro. I put that down the fact it has an external aerial.

Well, I put value of astethics and user friendlyness over all else. True that the FiiO BTA30 Pro has better range (yes probably due to external antenna) I'm not too bothered by the shorter range of the WiiM Ultra because it's still w/in normal range for me. Also the FiiO is a turd to use IMHO, just clunky. I hope this issue is maybe due to being the XM-4's being connected to the WiiM and my phone at the same time and/or having that powered on CD transport sitting directly above the WiiM.

Roy

 

[hgo58]

Re-installing the WiiM app as in "uninstall and re-install" will I loose all my RC's, EQs, and presets? Hopefully they are stored on the cloud?

All those configurations are stored in the WiiM devices. So you will only loose it if you factory reset the WiiM.

 

[Wiimer]

Thank you.

Okay, really hope I don't have to relocate my CD Transport as that's the perfect place for it. Maybe I should try to reproduce with the CD transport powered off? Again, it normally comes on with my full system power up.

I would like to check if the CD transport is a physical obstacle, so I recommend testing with the CD moved if possible.

If the Bluetooth improves with the CDs not on top of the Ultra, then I guess you could consider installing it in a rack like this.