WiiM mini and Alexa Plex Skills Integration

[Rockstar2020]

Hi,
I'm using WiiM mini connected to my Onkyo receiver along with Tidal Connect and Amazon Alexa integration.
Also I have a large library of music specifically FLAC/MQA files managed on a Plex Media Server.
I understand there's an upcoming integration with plex which I'm so waiting for but I'm submitting this post for another issue that I'm facing.

I have integrated Plex skills on Amazon Alexa where I play my library using voice commands (ie Alexa, ask plex to play ....) on my echo speakers.
So far I've been able to Direct Play my FLAC contents on echo speakers with no issues. Specially on echo Studio I'm getting fantastic playback quality of FLAC files.
But when I play the same content on WiiM which is integrated as spekaer in a device group within Alexa app, I see that the audio is getting transcoded down to 320kpbs.
Why is this happening?
Is there a limitation on WiiM as speaker which only limits to stream audio at max 320kbps?
I understand WiiM/Alexa integration is capable of streaming Amazon Music UHD contents so I wonder why there should be limitation of other medias.
I'm not subscribed to Amazon Music Premium so I only want my Plex integration also plays my music without transcoding.
Unfortunately there's no easy setup within Plex Server to force direct streaming of music files.

Below snap shot is the status reported on Plex Server when playing a FLAC file to WiiM speaker group.
As you can see it's transcoding.



and below is a snapshot of playing exactly the same FLAC file on an echo device which is not using WiiM as speaker.




Has anybody on this forum implemented a similar setup like mine? I'd like to hear about your experience.
Also, I'd like to get feedback from WiiM's support team to understand how this issue can be fixed.

Many thanks

 

[Brantome]

The WiiM Mini doesn’t support hi res playback in an Alexa multi room group due to its lack of memory. If you go into the Alexa section in the WiiM Home app, you should see an Amazon Music HD/UHD setting which advises you turn it off when using multi room. It will play hi res on its own, just not when grouped due to the required memory overheads. Re fixing, you’d need to try a WiiM Pro or Pro Plus.

Also, I have my doubts that the Echo Studio delivers more than 24/48 even as a single speaker, and that there is a similar cap on Alexa multi room groups, although you’d never get Amazon to admit that (or any of their first line support agents to understand that question ). It’s conveniently masked by a UHD badge which it is, but not the higher resolutions that you might expect.

Edit: note that all devices in an Alexa MRM group will play at the resolution of the least capable, so in your case with a WiiM Mini in the group, all devices will be playing lossy 320Kbps.

 

[Rockstar2020]

Thanks for your reply.
This is a bummer!
You didn't confidently say whether WiiM pro be able to Direct Stream or not.
I just don't want to buy one for trying sake.
Also, since I don't use Amazon music, will turning off Amazon HD/UHD make a difference?

 

[Brantome]

Hi, if by Direct Stream, you mean support lossy HD/UHD then yes the Pro can support that in an Alexa MRM group with an Echo Studio - here are a couple of screenshots from the Alexa app showing it playing a UHD track from Amazon Music to the Workout group which contains my Echo Studio and "Coax", my WiiM Pro, which from previous tests I probably posted in the forum some time ago is limited by both Alexa MRM and the Echo Studio I believe, to 24/48. If your lossless files FLAC files are less than 24/48, then they should be played OK. The only reason I say "should" is that I don't have Plex or another means of playing local FLAC files to an MRM group. I did have the My Media skill set up a while back, but no longer use it.

Re the switch, I think it's mislabelled a little as it's really just referring to an Alexa MRM's ability to support lossless playback - officially Amazon Music is the only supported streaming service that delivers lossless music, and I guess WiiM weren't aware that some skills, like Plex, can also play FLAC to echo devices.

Edit: as an aside, it looks like Alexa is no longer supplying resolution info to the WiiMs in a MRM group as I'm sure it used to do, otherwise I would have posted a screenshot of the WiiM App as well.

 

[Rockstar2020]

Thanks for clarification.
When I get home I'd like to try removing WiiM from the group and add it just as Speaker in the group to see if it makes a difference.
This would be my last try before giving up.

 

[Brantome]

How are you directing your Plex music to more than one echo/WiiM? Using the device group preferred speaker route described by some guy on Reddit a couple of years back?

https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonecho/comments/qnn3b7/_/hjjo0f9

I don't follow what you mean by removing the WiiM from the group - the preferred speakers setting is just another way of defining a multi room music group rather than going thru the Combine Speakers route, so I can't see that making a difference. Do let us know how you get on nonetheless. Cheers

 

[Rockstar2020]

So this is what I mean (see screen shot).
Basically my echo (Music) in the kitchen group, listens to my requests and the speaker (WiiM mini) directly playing Plex's FLAC file.
Again, I'm not sure if it makes a difference but I'll give it a try when I get home.
Previously I grouped WiiM and Echo device but in this configuration WiiM is not technically in the same group.

 

[Brantome]

Yeah, a device group needs at least one echo in it to take the request but the preferred speaker setting can be one or more other speakers (e.g. Echo, WiiM, Sonos etc) which don’t need to be in that device group. As I say, that speaker setting is a sort of backdoor multi room music group definition.

 

[d6jg]

I don't think this will work. You will be able to "divert" music from Alexa music services to the WiiM by saying "Alexa play something from Spotify/AMU/BBC Sounds" etc but I don't think you will be able to do similar with music from your Plex server. If it works I'd be delighted to hear but I don't think it will.

 

[Brantome]

I don't think this will work. You will be able to "divert" music from Alexa music services to the WiiM by saying "Alexa play something from Spotify/AMU/BBC Sounds" etc but I don't think you will be able to do similar with music from your Plex server. If it works I'd be delighted to hear but I don't think it will.

See my alter ego comment from Reddit above Those workarounds have worked for Plex and the other Alexa skills mentioned

 

[d6jg]

See my alter ego comment from Reddit above Those workarounds have worked for Plex and the other Alexa skills mentioned

This can only possibly work if you subscribe to PlexPass. Alexa has no access to your Plex server otherwise?

 

[Brantome]

This can only possibly work if you subscribe to PlexPass. Alexa has no access to your Plex server otherwise?

Sorry, I thought you meant the preferred speaker workaround which the OP already has working.

This page doesn’t mention Plexpass explicitly so perhaps it isn’t required.

Getting Started with Alexa Voice Control

Alexa provides a variety of hands-free ways to control your Plex Media Server and player with just your voice. The Plex Skill...

support.plex.tv

 

[d6jg]

See thr section

Setting up Alexa​

Ensure the Plex Media Server is Accessible​

One of the primary requirements for using Plex with Alexa is that the online Alexa service needs to be able to reach your Plex Media Server to talk to it. So, what do you need to do?

Enable Remote Access​

To allow your Plex Media Server to be accessed as needed, you need to enable Remote Access for your server. That’s done under Settings > Server > Remote Access in Plex Web App.

In many cases, it will either already be successfully configured for you or the automatic configuration will work fine. Sometimes things can’t be auto-configured, though, and you’ll need to do something such as manually forward a port in your router/modem.

Successfully enabling Remote Access will give you the best experience when using Alexa.

 

[Brantome]

“However, the perception is that you need a premium Plex Pass to watch remotely. It's not true; all users can stream remotely.“

How to Access Your Plex Library From a Remote Computer

Plex is the best media center around, but did you know you can also access your Plex library remotely? This guide shows you how.

www.makeuseof.com

Guess the OP will be able to confirm if he has/needed Plexpass to get working what he is already doing.

 

[Rockstar2020]

Updates from my side:
First of all, I do have Plex Lifetime Pass.
As explained before, I added only one echo device in my group and only left WiiM Mini as the speaker in the group.
I'm still able to execute voice commands on the single echo device in the group and have the music played back on WiiM Mini, but again it's transcoding to 320kpbs.
I tried turning on/offf the HD/UHD Amazon Prime Music setting in WiiM app but no difference.

Considering that the same FLAC file can easily stream direct (no transcoding) on WiiM Mini via UPnP from Plex Server, I'm not convinced that this is due to limited memory on WiiM mini.

I can't justify paying extra to get a WiiM Pro just to experiement this.
It would be great if any of you guys out there who have Plex Alexa Skills + Echo+ WiiM Pro, try playing a FLAC file via voice command and confirm whether it can stream directly without transcoding or not.

In the meantime, would any of WiiM's support team watching this thread be able to confirm the specification of WiiM's integration within Alexa?
The reason I'm asking this question is because I know Plex Server is following what its client is advertising as its playback capabilities. For example if the client informs Plex Server that it can Direct Play upto 2mpbs or certain codes, then Plex will send the audio stream without transcoding if the requested audio files are compatible.
In my case, if for example my FLAC file is 1.2mbps, I'm pretty sure WiiM Mini is advertising its capability to be less than 1.2mbps and hence the reason transcoding is happening. I may be wrong though.
I jut need to know what's WiiM Mini highest bit be second playback capability and then test it with files that are within the range to confirm this theory.

Thanks

 

[Brantome]

Sorry guys, I think I’ve misread this and gone down an Alexa MRM rabbit hole - that’s what happens when you skim read and reply at the crack of dawn…

If you leave the WiiM device aside for a moment, what happens if you specify another echo (say even the Studio) as preferred speaker and make the request to play Plex as usual to the echo in the device group? Does Plex still deliver lossless FLAC to the Studio?

This is ringing bells with me over similar issues I had with the Heos skill…

 

[Rockstar2020]

Sorry guys, I think I’ve misread this and gone down an Alexa MRM rabbit hole - that’s what happens when you skim read and reply at the crack of dawn…

If you leave the WiiM device aside for a moment, what happens if you specify another echo (say even the Studio) as preferred speaker and make the request to play Plex as usual to the echo in the device group? Does Plex still deliver lossless FLAC to the Studio?

This is ringing bells with me over similar issues I had with the Heos skill…

Can you scroll up and see my original post?
I even added the screenshot of the same FLAC file being played back (Direct Stream / no Transcoding) on another echo device.
I can confirm that it can Direct Stream on echo Studio, Echo Input (connected to external speaker) and Echo Dot.

 

[Brantome]

In each of those cases, is that asking those echos directly “alexa, ask Plex to play…” so that it plays on the requesting echo ?

What happens if you replace the WiiM in the Kitchen screenshot with your Echo Studio and ask another echo which is in that Kitchen group that same request? Does Plex show the Studio then playing Flac or lossy mp3?

 

[Rockstar2020]

In each of those cases, is that asking those echos directly “alexa, ask Plex to play…” so that it plays on the requesting echo ?

What happens if you replace the WiiM in the Kitchen screenshot with your Echo Studio and ask another echo which is in that Kitchen group that same request? Does Plex show the Studio then playing Flac or lossy mp3?

Good stuff!
That was the only test I didn't do.
When I set my echo Studio to be the speaker for that group (without WiiM Mini), it again transcodes down to 320kbps.
Still I'm not sure if this is the limitation on Plex Skill or Amazon limiting its group device bandwidth to 320kbps.
Thanks for the hint!
Now what's your thoughts?

 

[Brantome]

As I mentioned above re the Heos skill, this appears to be an Alexa issue using a skill to redirect audio via the preferred speaker setting of a room/device group. So nothing specifically to do with WiiM.

I’d need to check thru old posts to refresh my memory re Heos. While I could use the execrable Heos app to play bit perfect Amazon Music HD via my Heos Link HS2 connected over coax into my Linn amp, I could only get lossy SD when I used the room group preferred speaker setting when using Alexa and the Heos skill. It didn’t support lossless casting from the Amazon Music app either so that’s why I first bought the WiiM Mini which, because it’s implemented using the Alexa MRM stack and appears almost like a real echo, didn’t need a skill to get it to play music.

The only thing I need to dig out from old posts is whether even asking Alexa to play directly to my Heos also only delivered lossy audio. If you had a WiiM remote connected to your Mini and asked it to play Plex directly, I wonder what you’d get? My gut, as my memory slowly defrosts, suggests lossy too

Long past my bedtime here, so I’ll touch base again tomorrow if I get any more info. Sorry again about the MRM rabbit hole…