Wiim Ultra: Per-source output?

[Newb0815]

Hi all!

I am using a Wiim Ultra in my current setup solely as a streamer sending the (unaltered) digital signal to my RME Adi-2 Dac Fs via USB (then the signal goes via balanced connection to a C298 power amp).

Although I have been waiting for suitable solutions to combine both my HiFi setup and my HT setup, I‘ve been unable so far. As such, I (still) have a Sonos-based HT solution. I recently noticed (again) that the Sonos sub does not handle very low frequencies well (driver starts audible pumping). This led me to thinking about integrating my (currently unused) third-party sub again instead and/or maybe playing with a Wiim-based solution for HT instead of the Sonos system. I was thinking that I could connect my third-party sub to the Wiim Ultra and add Wiim Sound Lites as rears and Center to allow for a surround setup.

Now I was wondering if in such a 5.1 setup, the signal would still be put out via USB by the Ultra (which I would like to avoid since in the HT scenario, I would like the Ultra to control the volume) or if I could set the line-out as output for HDMI input while keeping the USB output for the WiFi source (streaming). Also, I was wondering if a connected subwoofer would automatically be active for every source and output.

Sorry for the long text but I think a little background information is always helpful.

I would appreciate if someone could give me some insights here.

Thanks!

 

[Mr Ee]

What would the ultra line out be going to? Surely not directly to the c298 as you'd then you'd have to flip the selector switches on the back, unless you have something else in between?

I don't think that Presets currently allow you to choose whether the sub is active or not; not sure about the Sound Profiles that are in beta testing.

 

[Newb0815]

Thanks a lot for your reply. That‘s what I am still thinking about. Do you have an idea?

If it weren‘t for two (for me) huge shortcomings of the Ultra compared to my RME, I wouldn’t bother using the RME at all:

- The RME has a superb variable loudness function. As far as I‘m aware, the Ultra does not have such a function (yet).
- The Ultra adds significant delay to (line in) input. When I play music on Sonos speakers (not just the ones currently used for HT) throughout the house, I cannot group the Sonos Port and connect it to the Ultra since there is audible latency.

 

[Mr Ee]

I know you specifically mentioned unaltered signal out of ultra to rme, but have you considered leaving the rme on high volume and using the ultra for volume?
This is how I use my pro / rme combo, and tbh I really doubt I could tell the difference in which one controls the volume.

 

[Wiimer]

Now I was wondering if in such a 5.1 setup, the signal would still be put out via USB by the Ultra (which I would like to avoid since in the HT scenario, I would like the Ultra to control the volume) or if I could set the line-out as output for HDMI input while keeping the USB output for the WiFi source (streaming). Also, I was wondering if a connected subwoofer would automatically be active for every source and output.

Yes, audio will output from the USB.

Using the Input Sound Profile feature suggested by @MrEe, you can link inputs and outputs. When the input switches to HDMI, it can automatically switch the output to Line.

You can try the beta firmware for Input Sound Profile. Open the Ultra "Device Info" in the WiiM app, press the "Join beta testing" button at the bottom, and install the firmware (Version 5.2.733433).

The operation method for this feature is explained here.

How to Use Sound Profile for a Convenient and Personalized Listening Experience

TABLE OF CONTENTS Benefits of Sound Profile Configure a Sound Profile Automatically Apply a Sound Profile WiiM supports the Sound Profile feature, which allows you to customize playback settings (e.g., multi-room, volume, EQ, and subwoofer...

faq.wiimhome.com

Please note that this is a beta version, so specifications may change in the future.

 

[Newb0815]

I know you specifically mentioned unaltered signal out of ultra to rme, but have you considered leaving the rme on high volume and using the ultra for volume?
This is how I use my pro / rme combo, and tbh I really doubt I could tell the difference in which one controls the volume.

I would then definitely be losing the loudness functionality which was one of the reasons I bought the RME. I guess it would make more sense to leave out the RME entirely. Initially, I thought about this - one year ago, I wanted to replace my c658 with the Ultra then serving as my preamp but the added latency when playing Sonos made that scenario impossible. Currently, both Ultra and Sonos are handled via the RME in terms of volume. That way, also both resources benefit from the RME‘s loudness function.

Yes, audio will output from the USB.

Using the Input Sound Profile feature suggested by @MrEe, you can link inputs and outputs. When the input switches to HDMI, it can automatically switch the output to Line.

You can try the beta firmware for Input Sound Profile. Open the Ultra "Device Info" in the WiiM app, press the "Join beta testing" button at the bottom, and install the firmware (Version 5.2.733433).

The operation method for this feature is explained here.

How to Use Sound Profile for a Convenient and Personalized Listening Experience

TABLE OF CONTENTS Benefits of Sound Profile Configure a Sound Profile Automatically Apply a Sound Profile WiiM supports the Sound Profile feature, which allows you to customize playback settings (e.g., multi-room, volume, EQ, and subwoofer...

faq.wiimhome.com

Please note that this is a beta version, so specifications may change in the future.

Thanks! That’s good to know. I will dig deeper into this and have a look.

Kind regards

 

[Newb0815]

What would the ultra line out be going to? Surely not directly to the c298 as you'd then you'd have to flip the selector switches on the back, unless you have something else in between?

I don't think that Presets currently allow you to choose whether the sub is active or not; not sure about the Sound Profiles that are in beta testing.

After doing some research, I think I could use an RCA to XLR cable from the Ultra and then use an analog xlr Switch (input from Ultra and RME, output to c298).

 

[Mr Ee]

After doing some research, I think I could use an RCA to XLR cable from the Ultra and then use an analog xlr Switch (input from Ultra and RME, output to c298).

You certainly can. I have an rca switch with a few inputs where its output goes to an xlr switch using an rca to xlr cable.
The xlr switch also has the RME dac going to it, and the xlr switch output goes to my power amp.
Just remember that the max ultra output voltage is 2v and the rme xlr output is 4v (pre any adjustment). i.e. the ultra analog out will sound quieter.

I also have an amp switch for the speakers.
Yes, sometimes I get confused on what needs to be set to what!

 

[Newb0815]

You certainly can. I have an rca switch with a few inputs where its output goes to an xlr switch using an rca to xlr cable.
The xlr switch also has the RME dac going to it, and the xlr switch output goes to my power amp.
Just remember that the max ultra output voltage is 2v and the rme xlr output is 4v (pre any adjustment). i.e. the ultra analog out will sound quieter.

I also have an amp switch for the speakers.
Yes, sometimes I get confused on what needs to be set to what!

Thanks for your insights.

Yes, I know the Ultra will be quieter but I don‘t think this would be an issue. The C298 is set to the lowest gain but I would even set it lower if it were possible. Since I am driving very sensitive Klipsch horn-powered main speakers, I think it would still be sufficient.

It seems that it should all be possible. I figured that maybe even without the beta this could work since the USB output is not commonly active. It only gets active once the RME is switched on and recognized by the Ultra. So if I set Line Out as „normal“ output, it might even work with the current firmware.

I will have a look in detail and maybe try out a few things over the holidays. The only struggle is that the Sound Lite is not available yet which I would need to serve as Center and Surrounds, but I guess I could still try the basic Sub functionality of the Ultra.

 

[Newb0815]

Yes, audio will output from the USB.

Using the Input Sound Profile feature suggested by @MrEe, you can link inputs and outputs. When the input switches to HDMI, it can automatically switch the output to Line.

You can try the beta firmware for Input Sound Profile. Open the Ultra "Device Info" in the WiiM app, press the "Join beta testing" button at the bottom, and install the firmware (Version 5.2.733433).

The operation method for this feature is explained here.

How to Use Sound Profile for a Convenient and Personalized Listening Experience

TABLE OF CONTENTS Benefits of Sound Profile Configure a Sound Profile Automatically Apply a Sound Profile WiiM supports the Sound Profile feature, which allows you to customize playback settings (e.g., multi-room, volume, EQ, and subwoofer...

faq.wiimhome.com

Please note that this is a beta version, so specifications may change in the future.

Thanks for pointing this out. I just installed the beta firmware. The options for customization are great already but I can‘t find an option to link inputs with specific outputs (Line out vs. USB). Am I missing something or is there currently only a possibility to define the output device (in case there is more than one Wiim device) rather than the output of the specific device?

Thanks and kind regards

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks for pointing this out. I just installed the beta firmware. The options for customization are great already but I can‘t find an option to link inputs with specific outputs (Line out vs. USB). Am I missing something or is there currently only a possibility to define the output device (in case there is more than one Wiim device) rather than the output of the specific device?

Thanks and kind regards

My apologies!

My recollection was incorrect. As you mentioned, it is not currently possible to configure output settings.

By editing an empty preset, you can simultaneously modify both input and output settings via the preset button.

Please refer to Scenario 5.

https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000624942-how-to-use-the-preset-feature-on-your-wiim-device#Sceanrio-5%3A-Save-Playback-Configurations-as-a-Preset

Sorry..

 

[Newb0815]

My apologies!

My recollection was incorrect. As you mentioned, it is not currently possible to configure output settings.

By editing an empty preset, you can simultaneously modify both input and output settings via the preset button.

Please refer to Scenario 5.

https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000624942-how-to-use-the-preset-feature-on-your-wiim-device#Sceanrio-5%3A-Save-Playback-Configurations-as-a-Preset

Sorry..

Thanks for your quick feedback!

I just figured this also myself and added some presets. One additional question: Is it possible to change the standard „fallback“ output to something different than Line out? The problem I have is that the USB output only becomes available once the RME is switched on. If it is switched off, it falls back to „Line out“ When the RME is not switched on, it might happen that music is streamed anyway and my XLR switch is still playing the direct Ultra output (intended for TV use only) - in that case, 100% volume would be applied. I already reduced the output voltage but this is not the optimal way.

 

[Newb0815]

Thanks, setting the volume (lower) in the presets is what I did for the HDMI input (and associated output) since the volume should be controlled by the TV remote on the Ultra. In contrast, for my WiFi profile (i.e. streaming to my RME), I set the volume to 100 since I am aiming at bit-perfect playback by the Ultra while d/a processing and volume control should be handled by the RME. However, the USB output (other than any other output) can only be selected when a connected device is detected by the Ultra, i.e. when the RME is turned on. If it is not turned on, the output falls back to the default, Line Out. If that happens and my XLR switch still passes on the Ultra‘s signal to my power amp (because TV sound was given out before), it is set at 100%. So far, I haven’t found a way to avoid this.

Edit: This was an answer to Wiimer‘s reply (which I somehow cannot see anymore).

 

[Wiimer]

One additional question: Is it possible to change the standard „fallback“ output to something different than Line out?

I tried it briefly, but it doesn't seem to work.

Before turning off the RME, it appears the only option is to switch the output using the preset button. If you create a preset that switches to Line-out when using HDMI input, you must press that preset before turning off the RME.
(You need to change the volume with this preset.)

 

[Wiimer]

Edit: This was an answer to Wiimer‘s reply (which I somehow cannot see anymore).

I realized I had given an irrelevant answer and deleted it.

 

[Newb0815]

I am still struggling a little with the usability. At some point, the 100% volume will go to my power amp and speakers - I guess this is unavoidable (I have to explain my family how to get sound from the TV now… ). I will have to check if the reduction of the voltage of the line out is enough (keeping volume in safe regions then even at 100%), but maybe the functionality will be extended in this regard.

BTW: Is a volume matching/harmonization between the channels easily possible in a surround setup when the line out voltage of the main device for the fronts is reduced?

 

[Wiimer]

I am still struggling a little with the usability. At some point, the 100% volume will go to my power amp and speakers - I guess this is unavoidable (I have to explain my family how to get sound from the TV now… ). I will have to check if the reduction of the voltage of the line out is enough (keeping volume in safe regions then even at 100%), but maybe the functionality will be extended in this regard.

Yes, I think it will work.

BTW: Is a volume matching/harmonization between the channels easily possible in a surround setup when the line out voltage of the main device for the fronts is reduced?

Yes, you can adjust the volume of each channel individually in the WiiM app. Once you adjust it, I think you only need to adjust the group volume after that. You can adjust the group volume on your device's volume knob or remote.

However, when using wireless 5.1, there are two further issues at least.

1. Switching from HDMI to Wi-Fi does not ungroup the speakers. As it does not automatically switch to 2.1, you must either manually ungroup them or mute all speakers except the front speakers.

2. After unlinking the 5.1 group and relinking it, the center speaker assignment is reset. You must manually reassign the center speaker again.

These issues may be addressed in future updates. However, personally, I can't actively recommend WiiM's wireless Dolby 5.1 in its current state. (But problems are less likely to occur if you always use 5.1ch.)

 

[Newb0815]

Yes, I think it will work.



Yes, you can adjust the volume of each channel individually in the WiiM app. Once you adjust it, I think you only need to adjust the group volume after that. You can adjust the group volume on your device's volume knob or remote.

However, when using wireless 5.1, there are two further issues at least.

1. Switching from HDMI to Wi-Fi does not ungroup the speakers. As it does not automatically switch to 2.1, you must either manually ungroup them or mute all speakers except the front speakers.

2. After unlinking the 5.1 group and relinking it, the center speaker assignment is reset. You must manually reassign the center speaker again.

These issues may be addressed in future updates. However, personally, I can't actively recommend WiiM's wireless Dolby 5.1 in its current state. (But problems are less likely to occur if you always use 5.1ch.)

Thanks for the additional insights - this is very helpful!

Obviously, I haven‘t „arrived“ at those problems yet but I figured there might be additional difficulties further along the line. My hope indeed was that - somewhat comparable to the sub on/off switch - it would be configurable in the sound profiles that WiFi input would just be set to stereo/2.1. Also, I wasn’t sure if USB output would change the behaviour given the fact that it only appears once the receiving device is switched on.

Thanks also for your personal view on the status quo. The Center speaker is definitely a requirement for me for dialogue clarity. I once tried the Sonos amp for TV use and was not happy at all in that regard. Same goes for the NAD M10 - I would have bought it a long time ago if a dedicated Center speaker could be added.

Personally, I don‘t quite understand that no big player in the industry has been able to really bring HiFi and HT together. In my eyes (but I might be biased of course), a lot of people would love to have ONE proper system instead of two separate solutions (or a single one that is a compromise in both regards). But given the pace in which Wiim introduces new products, I guess it is only a question of time until Wiim offers something that could fill this gap.

Merry Christmas to everyone!