telecastermds`
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Yeah, if it had the black front like the IOM amp that would be 
WiiM Vibelink Amp
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Steve Woodhouse
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Not a bad point. But I'm still not sure. I mean this will go nicely with the Ultra, and sell on the back of it matching, yes I'm sure of that.
But this doesn't match a Mini or Pro/Plus anymore than 101 other power amp/DACs out there.
So coming back to the Ultra, let's say you connect via analogue, which I presume is the intent (but more in a minute). If you leave the amp at full and control volume from the Ultra, you've limited the digital input on the Vibe to a source with its own volume control (or you'd be blowing your head off), so that's already only useful to what, 50% of users? And why would you bother using digital in at all, when you have digital in on the Ultra? More inputs? Again, quite limited usage. This isn't 2010 where you had a turntable, TV, CD player, tuner, MiniDisc, cassette, etc. You've set up a market limited mainly to people who (a) own Ultras, (b) need more inputs than are on the Ultra, but (c) need to control volume from all sources from the amp. That's a sub-set of a sub-set of a sub-set.
So let's connect just an Ultra using the digital in (and I think that's going to be w-a-a-a-y over half the market for this). Okay, but you've then made a deliberate choice to buy an amp with a (presumably) great DAC when you already own an Ultra with a great DAC.
I just don't see this selling as direct competition to other amps, and I could be wrong. But all else aside, I bet there'll be people out there who'll see it, and think it can only go with the Ultra, and even if it can go with other things, it's difficult to get into the mindset of viewing this as a standalone, use-with-anything amp, which could exist even if the other WiiMs didn't. I only really see it selling as an add-on power stage to the Ultra, in which case it's unnecessarily more featured (and subsequently more expensive) than its main target market needs it to be.
What am I missing?
Why isn’t it an add-on power stage for any WiiM Streamer? While it has multiple inputs, I don’t think the intention is to use more than one at any one time, it’s just to give a choice to existing streamer owners. If you have an Ultra, use the analogue input. If not, use a digital input from your mini/pro/plus and get access to a potentially better DAC in the vibelink. If it only had a single analogue input, I’d feel disadvantaged if I didn’t have an Ultra…
I think you may be over thinking it
I think you may be over thinking it
Steve Woodhouse
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Why isn’t it an add-on power stage for any WiiM Streamer? While it has multiple inputs, I don’t think the intention is to use more than one at any one time, it’s just to give a choice to existing streamer owners. If you have an Ultra, use the analogue input. If not, use a digital input from your mini/pro/plus and get access to a potentially better DAC in the vibelink. If it only had a single analogue input, I’d feel disadvantaged if I didn’t have an Ultra…
I think you may be over thinking it
No such thing as over thinking it.
Why isn’t it a powered stage for any WiiM streamer? I think I sort of covered that.
It can be. And it can be a power amp for your turntable, as long as you have a phono pre-amp.
Or for a Sony Walkperson, with a 3.5mm to 2xRCA lead.
Whatever you want.
You could use it for that. But why would you. Judged purely on its features and performance, it’s currently just a little over-priced (unusual for WiiM), and likely not to be a bargain even when the price drops.
If I had anything other than an Ultra, I just don’t see why I’d buy one. It’s one USP is to match the Ultra. Not just its USP, I’d say matching the Ultra is its raison d'être.
My PA5 II is better and half the price. If I wanted as much power as the vibe I could get a PA5 II Plus for £260 (still cheaper).
I can’t see very many people buying this who don’t have an Ultra, other than Mini/Pro/Plus owners demonstrating brand loyalty, maybe?
Nobody ever hinted at a price tag of GBP 400, though.4 - The WiiM costs a lot more than the Topping. At the moment it's twice as much, and even if the price drops from £400 to £300, that's 50% more than the Topping.
That's just fine, it's a power amp with some goodies, not an integrated amp.
Steve Woodhouse
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Nobody ever hinted at a price tag of GBP 400, though.
Oh yes they did.
They said $400 USA and £300-and-bits UK. Only previous price announcements have been 1:1 or more.
That might not be a fact. But it’s at least a hint, and probably more.
Steve Woodhouse
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EddNog
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Out of curiosity, why do you term it not an integrated amp?Nobody ever hinted at a price tag of GBP 400, though.
That's just fine, it's a power amp with some goodies, not an integrated amp.
I was under the impression that an integrated amp is any amplifier with volume control.
-Ed
slartibartfast
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So $400 not £400
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I presume no option of bridge mode to allow this as a mono block?
How can you say "Oh yes they did" and then without further ado reduce your claim from GBP 400 to GBP 300?
That doesn't work out. Your Topping iss getting more and more expensive by comparison.
Pretty much every PA power amp ever made has a volume control. Many have different input connectors. That doesn't make them integrated amps, of course.
Traditionally, an integrated amplifier was the combination of a pre-amp and a power amp in one case. Back then, the pre-amp actually had to pre-amplify the signal, in particular that of a turntable, of course. FM radio inputs often needed higher amplification than e.g. tape recorders. And of course, at least one tape out connector and monitor switch(es) were the norm.
That definition is no longer helpful, obviously. But we have other hints regardiz the intended use: No remote, no sub out, only one analogue input, no network connectivity, no app control ... by all means, this device is definitely not intended as a modern day integrated amplifier.
Not everyone has to have use for it. I just don't get this "if I don't need it, there's no market for it" attitude.
EddNog
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Wait…so there’s no remote?! What was that remote for at the Bristol show when they previewed it?How can you say "Oh yes they did" and then without further ado reduce your claim from GBP 400 to GBP 300?
That doesn't work out. Your Topping iss getting more and more expensive by comparison.
Pretty much every PA power amp ever made has a volume control. Many have different input connectors. That doesn't make them integrated amps, of course.
Traditionally, an integrated amplifier was the combination of a pre-amp and a power amp in one case. Back then, the pre-amp actually had to pre-amplify the signal, in particular that of a turntable, of course. FM radio inputs often needed higher amplification than e.g. tape recorders. And of course, at least one tape out connector and monitor switch(es) were the norm.
That definition is no longer helpful, obviously. But we have other hints regardiz the intended use: No remote, no sub out, only one analogue input, no network connectivity, no app control ... by all means, this device is definitely not intended as a modern day integrated amplifier.
Not everyone has to have use for it. I just don't get this "if I don't need it, there's no market for it" attitude.
-Ed
Not everyone has to have use for it. I just don't get this "if I don't need it, there's no market for it" attitude.
That's not unusual. It's pretty common for people to think their list of "wants" vs "don't need" is universal and just don't understand why someone would want a feature that's been included or why something they want was left off. I've always enjoyed the people-watching aspect of the the "Feature Requests" subforums. I'm entertained by the large list of things that people want included on a budget product, though also have to say I've also been surprised at the long list of new features that have been added to the Wiim gear I've already purchased. In some ways, Wiim has brought this list of demands on themselves!
No idea. Might be a separate product.
Amir didn't mention a remote. And if I remember correctly somebody asked for it in the comments.
That is probably a 2nd gen remote that connects to and controls a WiiM streamer, not sure yet if it will be included with Vibelink, but my guess is not. (I don't know if the remote will be released on its own or if it will be replaced in the future by a 1st gen remote).
deksawyer
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No, not the same. The volume on an integrated amp controls the output volume, whereas on a proper power amp, the gain control adjusts the level of the input.
I've no idea what the control does on the Vibelink does as I've never seen or heard it, just like the vast majority of members on this forum.
What are you on about? There is no such difference between integrated amplifiers or power amps with volume control. A classic integrated amplifier has a preamp section for volume control (and sometimes EQ) which is applied directly at the input signals, in front of the actual amplifier circuit.
Maybe you like the dual tpa3251 ( used in 3e audio A5 ) better than Fosi:s tpa3255 ?telemike agrees with you.
The SINAD figures might have to be taken with a grain of salt. But the fact that Amir had a ground loop issue with his AP analyser is not helpful, at least.
I must admit that I enjoy my 3e Audio A5 more than my V3 Monos. That's my bashful way of saying that I thinks that there's a difference in sound quality, when objectively many would declare the differences as beyond the threshold of perceivability. That puts me in a camp I'm usually not associated with.
The nice looks and the comfort of an integrated power supply surely make it attractive, at least to me.
It has lower distortion.
I built my own power amp using tpa3255 at diyaudio. This way, I could use the correct gain thats suitable for my use, only 15 dB.
I also use a Hypex ncore 125 from audiophonics which I modified with less gain ( 14 dB ) unsoldering two smd resistors.
Both amplifiers sounds really good, but I have to say that overall a good implemented tpa3255 with good op amps ( opa1612 or 1642 ) sounds slightly better than my Hypex ncore. It is impossible to see why in measurements , but the tpa3251/3255 is slightly cleaner in the ultra high frequencies i.e. puts out less hf rubbish so this might be a clue.
By the way, the tpa 3255 chip sounds best and with lowest distortion at 34-36V , very far from the usual 48V used.
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the behavior of the 3a in the asr measurements is clearly more classic, less temperamental when faced with the load at the end of the band compared to other machines in this amp family...telemike agrees with you.
The SINAD figures might have to be taken with a grain of salt. But the fact that Amir had a ground loop issue with his AP analyser is not helpful, at least.
I must admit that I enjoy my 3e Audio A5 more than my V3 Monos. That's my bashful way of saying that I thinks that there's a difference in sound quality, when objectively many would declare the differences as beyond the threshold of perceivability. That puts me in a camp I'm usually not associated with.
The nice looks and the comfort of an integrated power supply surely make it attractive, at least to me.
( if you don't mind being indiscreet on which speakers?)
here the subjective joins these types of simple measurements....
(I suspect ,like another that the race for cheap watts for this types of chip has its limits... maybe more balanced by not trying to get a max out of it which will not be of much use in most case)
In any case 3a shows that with efforts it remains possible to improve the results around these chips ti
;-)
(What bothers me is that this huge promotion of these ti solutions, necessarily very marketed, risk of obscuring other options just around the corner, intended for this very general public market which are just as interesting, if not more so...and not oriented towards watt/cost but more qualitative.)
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Radiant Acoustics Clarity 6.2 and full range TQWT speakers based on Dayton Audio RS100-4. Very different impedance plots, works equally well with both.
What alternatives are you referring to? I don't see anything wrong with using the TPA 325x chips. Back then when they hit the market, nobody - and least of all TI - would have expected what levels of performance would be possible when using them the right way and taking appropriate care of the thermal requirements. And by performance I'm not talking about cheap watts.
But we'll, we're way off topic here.
What alternatives are you referring to? I don't see anything wrong with using the TPA 325x chips. Back then when they hit the market, nobody - and least of all TI - would have expected what levels of performance would be possible when using them the right way and taking appropriate care of the thermal requirements. And by performance I'm not talking about cheap watts.
But we'll, we're way off topic here.
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